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Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by sharmstr, Jul 2, 2018.
Shawn's adventure in assembling and customizing the Openbuild's version of the 1500x1000 Workbee.
sharmstr published a new build:
Read more about this build...
Am I looking for trouble by putting the vacuum under the back of the machine?
The controller will be at the front which is a good 4 feet away.
That's a pretty impressive cabinet you have drawn there.
As you haven't mentioned noise, although it would help some, I assume it is solely for containing dust.
If, however, you have a good extraction system, and you are not going to be using it in your lounge, I don't know that you need to go to all that trouble.
I've used my old machine with a shop vac sitting right next to it, and had no problem, other than having to earth the vacuum pipe for static.
You will need to consider how you will get the pipe from the vac to above the machine. Perhaps the table would need to be longer at the back so the pipe can rise up through the table and make its way to the Router/Spindle from there.
As a thought, I would put a great table like that, on adjustable wheels, so making it easy to move and make all areas around it accessible.
In fact I think I might use a few ideas from your drawing for my next CNC table.
Glad to meet you and thank you. Seems we have the same thoughts.
I have a few possible reasons for the enclosure.
1 - Dust, though the dust collection might be enough
2 - The machine will reside in a dirty environment. Though a tarp thrown over it while not in use will work.
3 - Noise. I didnt buy a router with it. I have a dewalt that I will try out first, though I might end up with a spindle. From what I read, due to the length of the X axis, weight of a spindle is a concern, but I havent really done too much research on that yet.
For the dust collection part, I already have the pipe coming up through the table top. You just couldnt see it in the picture. Heres one showing it better.
The reason for wanting the dust collection under the table was to hopefully cut down on vacuum noise and (to your other point) make the whole thing mobile. For the noise part, I ended up buying a Fein Turbo I. Its only 66 db and works great. The floor of the dust collection cabinet will be perforated and the sides will have a few fans. This should help with the heat generated by the vacuum. (The cabinet has doors, but I didnt show them in the pics)
For the mobile part, I have castors, they just arent modeled. I bought these removable ones from Rockler
I did consider picking up Rockler's anti static hose, but decided I could ground the hose that comes with the vacuum. Just another bit to sort out later.
For ease, I did buy the xPro with the bundle, but may go a different route down the road. I searched for the bluetooth adapter yesterday, but it seems everyone is out of stock. That got me down the path of moving the xPro to the front of the table which I think is a better option anyways. I still havent decided which way I'm going to go with the control panel. I built a custom one for my Tormach mill and I'm leaning that way with this machine. Again, its a decision that I'll make down the road. I really just want to get it hooked up and some hours on it so I can see where I will be standing and what areas I need access to regularly.
Hi Shawn, yes that looks like a great cabinet, so congratulations on thinking ahead because dust collection can be an issue. Like GrayUK I haven't done much yet regarding dust, so I will be keen to see how you go. I've built a c-beam XL with extra Z height, but when I get time I should do something about dust collection.Images
Thank you, Geoff. I think I'll be doing something about Z height down the road as well. Unlike the ozznest workbee, the openbuilds one doesnt have two spoilboard positions. As ordered, there's only 1.5" clearance. I think that's going to annoy me quickly. LOL, I took a look at your pics. Great stuff!
Yes I think you can gain alot by increasing the z, it's easy on the XL, I increased the gantry support length by 4", and to be honest I have never noticed any loss of rigidity, I guess there is, but I'm only cutting wood, and it's not a problem. I guess you will have to cut new plates for the Workbee, unless someone has already done it. Ryan from Ooznest would be my first call if you decide to do it. Anyway good luck with your build.
Took a look at your projects. You've made some pretty cool stuff there. Really impressive.
I like your simple solution to deal with the sawdust for now. A case of K.I.S.S. there I think.
I plan to have my vac at one end of the workshop, away from civilization, then run a pipe to above it, and then drop down onto the machine.
Just as well that the suck you start with, will be the suck you get at the other end.
Impressive cabinet. This should really help reduce noise.
Thanks GrayUK, now I'm an aging present maker for friends and family, but it keeps me out of the pub. Yes it's a simple half solution but means I can sweep or vacuum out when necessary. I must try harder one day!
I'm working on adding the X assembly to the 250mm C-beam. I adjusted the eccentrics so the wheels are touching and moving the c-beam when turning the wheels. However, the center wheel on the opposite side of the eccentrics isnt touching (therefore not moving). In the build video, it sounds like all three eccentrics should be adjusted the same amount. In order to get the middle/non-eccentric wheel to turn when sliding the c-beam, I need to adjust the center eccentric to the point that the entire assembly has too much friction. For reference, the outer two eccentrics were turned to the right less than a 1/4 turn. To get the center non-eccentric wheel to turn, I need to adjust the center eccentric 1/2 a turn.
I found the following in the Ooznest version instructions.
"Initially, the CBeam will wobble between the wheels. Turn the assembly upside down so the C-Beam is sitting on the row of wheels with the Aluminium-Spacer-6mms. Starting with an outside pair of wheels, adjust both Eccentric-Spacer-6mms down onto the C-Beam WorkBee CNC Assembly 17 Extrusion until there is a small amount of friction between both wheels and the CBeam Extrusion. When adjusting the pair of Eccentric-Spacer-6mms ideally they should be adjusted identically. However, sometimes one will need to be adjusted slightly more than the other to get both wheels engaged with the C-Beam extrusion."
Made some mods to the frame. Details are in the build section.
Finally got the machine wired enough to get it moving. Still need to add the SuperPID to the mix and wire my limit switches. But its working.
I'm in the process of ditching the wheels and going with linear bearings like @Jacob Lotter has. I figured if I'm going to do all that work, I might as well ditch the belts at the same time. I'm looking at using 1/2"-10 5 start acme screws. I found some nut blocks on ebay that look like they will fit within the c-beam (if not, I'll make my own). However, I have some basic questions about all of this.
1 - Is a 1/2-10 5 start screw the best choice for this machine?
2 - I watched the 1010 build video which shows 2 nut blocks on each Y and X axis. Does the use of the two nut blocks eliminate the need for a anti-backlash nut? I'm assuming that's true, but just wanted to verify.
3 - Do I need to upgrade my motors?
You will most likely need to fabricate an anti-backlash nut (and tap) that will fit in the channel. That is what I did. Or you can come up with another way to utilize the 1/2-10 5 start screws such as the Ox modifications by DaztheGas. I use them on my 1500x850mm custom CNC and they work great and with no noticeable whipping.
Here are the anti-backlash nuts I made out of 3/4 inch delrin from McMaster-Carr:
I cut and machined mine by hand, but these would be real easy now that I have a CNC router.
1. As I have been researching this as well, i came to the same conclusion with those screws, just a 12mm to keep it all metric and I have 3 sets of metric tap/drill indexes haha. More TPI = less torque.
2. You may have to make your own nuts to fit into that 20x40mm c-channel cavity. unless you found more low profile nuts like openbuilds uses.
3. and as for the motors. With the linear bearing retrofit I completed I did notice i had to lower the Accel Rates and Jog max speeds to run the machine because more drag is present. I will be upgrading to a 425oz motor system/drives and a Ethernet Smoothboard Micro Controller since its frequency as phenomenal. Its going to be pricey, but worth it in the long run as I will make this a Modular Control system with plugs for EVERYTHING. Motors, limit switches, power, ethernet interface. It'll be plug and play to future CNC builds.
@Giarc / @Jacob Lotter
First, thank you both for everything you post on here. I spent a ton of time researching yesterday and @Giarc, your content came up more than once I learned a lot from it.
Anyhow, the reason I asked if using two nut blocks on a single axis is essentially the same as using one anti-backlash nut is because 1 - it looks like that's what's being done on the screw driven workbees, and 2 - there are nutblocks on ebay that are .75" x 1.475" which should fit within the c-channel (see attached). Yes, I can make them, but would rather not if possible. I have enough on my plate as it is. If they do fit, I can put two on each axis like the screw driven workbees. I think worse case is I'll have modify (or make new) mounting holes for the blocks and make mounting holes on the end plates for the pillow block bearings. That's not much work at all.
Jacob, the linear bearings show up on friday. Thanks again for posting the info.
Those nut blocks look nice! care to send a link? can't seem to find them. Thanks! Appreciate the info you also provide. Since we seem to be going in the same direction with out CNC's I'm sure our paths will cross many times.
@Jacob Lotter - I had a feeling you guys didnt notice the link before. Here they are: 1/2-10 ACME DELRIN NUT BLOCK RH for acme threaded rod 5-start CNC 3d printer | eBay He only has imperial sizes though.
As I mentioned above, from what I can tell, it should be a fairly simple upgrade, at least on the Y axis. I havent really looked at the X axis yet. But the bearing holes in the Y axis end plates are already big enough for the 1/2" screws to fit through. I couldnt find any flanged bearings that would work, so I'll add pillow blocks on the outside of the plates like @Giarc did.
If you're going the 12mm route, here's a link he posted for the pillow block bearings: 12 mm diameter zinc alloy bearing housings KFL001 flange bearing housings with pillow block 4 pcs-in Bearings from Home Improvement on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group (and a link to his build if you havent seen it yet)
I'll need to probably drill 16 holes in total for the Y axis. The hardest part will be lining up the nut blocks within the channel, but that should be easily solved when I make the linear bearing mounts. (which is why I wanted to figure all of this out ahead of time).
I just saw that you posted the dimensions of the bearing mounts. Thank you!
EDIT: I ordered the nut blocks. I'll let you know what I think when I get them next week.
Those nuts are a great find. When I was looking 3 years ago, those we're not available. That would have saved me a lot of time.
No kidding. It definitely took a while to find and once I did, it took me even longer to figure out that they might work. LOL. I get them on Monday. I'll let you guys know.
@Giarc Did you use any lock collars on your acme screws or were the set screws in the pillow bearings enough?
No lock collars.
I actually took the set screw out, drilled a small hole almost through the lead screw using the set screw hole as the guide - careful not to damage the threads - then tapped the hole with an M3 tap. Then I used a much longer set screw that locks the two together. If you do it be very careful tapping, breaking the tap is a possibility because the screws are hard.
I hope this is in focus. I can't tell because I just got my eyes dilated.
How do I know about the broken tap issue...
Hey @Giarc . Now that I'm reading what you did, I remember reading that somewhere else before (probably in your build log). Sorry for making you go over it again. I appreciate it though.
I can see that tap... or whats left of it Its was a great idea to drill into the screws. Smart!
I got all the parts in to convert the wheels to linear bearings and the belts to acme screws. The delrin nut blocks are really nice and fit inside the C-Beam. The pillow block bearings wont fit like I initially thought, but will fit regardless and are also pretty nice. I'll start tearing down the machine and work on machining the new bits later this week. In the meantime, here's some pics to look over.
Nut block within the C-beam
Looks like it will work with the existing bores in the end plates (its too low now because its still on the c-beam)
The pillow block bearings I bought and how I plan to mount them.
Just updated the build with my Y axis mods (x and z are next). I knew from the beginning I'd need to upgrade my motors and switch to separate drivers. However, after a lot of work, I was able to get everything working with the basic nema 23 and the xpro. I can reliably rapid around 4500mm/min. Anything over than that the motors stall. So, I need some advice on which motors to get. Originally I had my eyes on the high torque motors in the OB store. They are out of stock, so I started looking for other options. I was looking at 425oz 4.2A motors (for y and x). But I got stuck on what size power supply to get.
The two different setups I'm looking at is:
1 - OB supplied parts. I'd prefer this and dont mind waiting on the motors to be back in stock. Plus, since the machine is running on the old under-powered setup, I think 345oz motors would work fine. (not sure)
3 345oz high torque motors (x and y)
1 175oz for Z
4 DQ542MA motor drivers
?? Power supply
2 - Maybe I should go higher powered setup, but dont want to get into a dual power supply situation if I dont have to
3 425oz 4.2A motors (x and y)
1 175oz motor (z)
4 DM542T motor drivers
?? Power supply(ies)
Any advice on power supplies or suggestion on a different setup is appreciated.
CNC4PC has a great selection of stepper kits and controller's with a various assortment of BOBs. I had issues with shipping as they are slow and forgot bits here and there, but they have such a great inventory...
I did look at that, but was really turned off by the crap you had to go through. Maybe I should save final judgement until you get everything running. LOL