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OpenBuilds WorkBee 1510

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Mark Carew, Jun 15, 2018.

  1. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Hi @jeffmorris thanks for sharing this good feedback
    The Meanwells do have built in protections for short circuits, overloads and over voltage but its always best to be safe so I usually plug the power supply into a nice power strip that sits on the desk next to my machine. This simple solution gives me a nice red switch as well as more receps and a inline breaker, so this works out really great.
    This is a great idea, will look into adding some 3mm nylon spacers for this.
    Thank you again for your feedback.
     
    GrayUK likes this.
  2. MCRCNC

    MCRCNC New
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    Hi
    Could someone post me a picture of the belt within the Y axis cbeam please? I'm trying to figure out clearance for an idea and id like to know how big the gap is between the pinion and the veritcal internal wall of the c-beam is.
    Thanks
     
  3. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    The belt lays in the v-slot. Here's the part of the build video showing it.

     
  4. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    Its really hard to get a good picture after its assembled because a phone wont fit in the c-beam. These are the best I could do.
     

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  5. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Perhaps if you can give us more info on your idea, we can tell you if it has been tried before. :)
     
  6. MCRCNC

    MCRCNC New
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    @sharmstr Thanks thats cool, appreciate it. i think there is a gap

    I have an OX, modified, at the moment and have noticed how much flex there is in the y axis 20*80, which I have fixed. However, I'm looking at upgrading to a larger format with c-beam,using very long sections so i can do a full 2400mm work area. This with workbee plates (I like the double wheel idea) and c-beam for X looks like it will be worthwhile.

    On my current Y-axis I have a 40mm*10mm flat bar bolted on the inside the whole length on the Y and it works great. I wondered if I could do the same, with thinner stock, inside the c-beam and with the workbee plates without interfering with the pinion gear.

    So if you were looking at the cross-section of the Y axis, down the internal channel how much of a gap is there?

    If i were to guess i'd say approx 5mm - the belt in the channel is the middle 6.773 but the gear would go slightly beyond that im just not sure what it is. if it leaves too little room then flat bar wouldn't add anything

    [​IMG]

    Hope that makes sense.

    Alternatively - is c-beam at 2600mm (ish) stiff enough on its own?- the workbee plates don't allow any intermediate supports.

    Thanks
    Ryan
     
  7. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I've just had a look at the 1510 build. Is it only using one belt and not the Dual Belt System? :jawdrop:
    You definitely need a dual belt system on a larger machine.
    :thumbsup:
     
  8. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    @GrayUK its a single belt on both Ys and X. I've bought extra belting for the X but havent installed it yet.

    @MCRCNC While I was taking the pictures, I figured out what you had in mind :) I'll see if I can get some measurements for you later today. Another option was posted the other day but I'm having a hard time finding the thread. Basically they modified the inner Y axis plates so that they could add supports to the lower part of the C-beam. I'll look around some more for the post.

    The X c-beam is another concern I have. Since nothing runs within the c-beam on the X, I'm thinking about adding a 20x40 inside the C. Basically make it a 80x40.

    There is some other good mod ideas here: Some Improvements on the Workbee 1000x1000
     
  9. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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  10. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    I used some feeler gauges and got an approximate gap measurement of 5mm. You wouldnt be able to use a 40mm tall bar due to the nuts holding the belt wheels. Though I suppose you could change those out for low profile nuts.... maybe. A 25mm tall x 4mm thick bar running the length could be used. Hope this helps.
     

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  11. MCRCNC

    MCRCNC New
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    That is exactly what I was looking for, thank you very much. I appreciate the effort.

    The Red bar feels somewhat insignificant when shown like that so this is probably not a good idea, although the low profile bolts allowing a 40*5 bar would help. I think however that this would be far less rigid than the 40*10 that gave me the idea. So I'm not sure it stacks up.

    I do like the modified Y plates by Antonio Pereira as anchoring to the table seems the best approach by far and with that Metalguru has me thinking about linear rails and a new approach altogether.
     
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  12. KEITHABEAR

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    Has any one used 1/2 MDF instead 3/4 spoil board on the 1510.
     
  13. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    Vibration Redux or 1 Step Forward, 2 Step Back!

    After having this problem seemingly resolved, and the machine moving perfectly on all axes, we finally found time to surface our spoil board. We set up a 1" surfacing mill to a 0.02" offset pocket. It worked flawlessly until it moved to the rear 8"-10" or so. Then the vibration returned. Once it began, the position data was obviously lost to the controller. When it moved to the front, it skipped ahead, leaving an unsurfaced area of about 1.5". I stopped the run and checked the wheel tightness in the slots, as this seemed to solve the problem previously. I attempted another run, adding a second pass taking another 0.01" to correct any Z-zeroing discrepancy. The first pass ran well, but was slightly higher than the last aborted run. When the second (0.01") pass began it again messed up in the rear of the Y axis. I stopped the run and tried jogging without cutting. This video shows what is now occurring.

    I believe the problem is that the wheels are binding, but I have the tightest as loose as the eccentrics will allow (see original post noted above.) The very helpful Mark Carew believed the problem was related to the driver board and was nice enough to send me a new one. As I had seemingly corrected the problem in the meantime and didn't want to waste a good board, I sent it back. (Wish I had installed it now! At least I could have eliminated that possibility.)

    I would appreciate any ideas (or speculation) at this point. I'm starting to think desperate thoughts, like dismantling the machine to re-assembling the Y-axes.
     
  14. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I guess you have cut a piece of timber or something the exact width and checked for constant width?
    Try moving the gantry with your hand just an inch or two where it works fine, see how it feels, and then again down the end where it faulters.
    How different does it feel? I feel something is binding down there.
    It's not a heat thing, or a power thing, because once it gets out of the problem area, it moves fine!!
    Have you got another piece of aluminium, or something absolutely straight, and hold it against the Y lengths to check for curves?
    Check for squareness everywhere.
     
  15. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    I agree Gray, good advice. @Grimace I would also like to see you turn your power off and slowly move the X axis along the Y axis from say the center of the machine to the back where you see it stalling.
    If its getting tight there your x axis may be binding and so you may want to try to loosen one of the Y axis C-Beams from the frame there in the back while the X axis is back there so that you have even pressure throughout the y axis travel.

    Seeing this stalling also makes me go back to the feeling of a weak driver and so I would also like to see you try to stop the axis from moving and see if it goes into this same stalling situation along other areas of the Y axis.
    If this is them case then maybe it is a faulty driver situation after all. Lets see what we find.
    No worries brother we will send another out to you so you can give it a go.
     
  16. KEITHABEAR

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    I had the same problem it was the belt on the Y motor, I didn't put the tie on the belt and it came loose
     
  17. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    I checked both Y-axes with a 3' aluminum level, top and side, but could see no discernible variance. I just made a test sign in the front 12" and it worked fine. I measured across the X and found maybe 1/32" variance around the problem area. With the power off, I ran it by hand for a few inches in the back and there was no noticeable binding. That baffles me, but it may be that the amount of force I use is overcoming the bind. As before, when I jog it through with the machine driver and provide slight assistance with my hand it stops making noise. Is the amount of power the motors are supplying too small to overcome some small amount of added resistance in the back? The belts seem tensioned correctly and are all zip-tied so they are not loosening, but is there wear on the grooves from the previous problems I had? Doubtful, but maybe I'll have to remove them and check.
     
  18. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    Tomorrow I will try your suggestion of loosening one of the sides of the Y then run it back and see if that helps. Good idea.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  19. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    Mine started making a horrible sound when it got about 18 inches from my normal 0,0,0 position today. I found that the Y was out of square. I may have had a small crash yesterday and I do not remember. I was cutting in just the first foot of space yesterday and there was no weird sound. But, I noticed some circles that looked weird and wrote it off as just my bad eyes. After turning the motors off and re-squaring the gantry, my circles look good and no more noise.
     
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  20. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    I had something similar in my very first run. I saw someones' tip about adding the ties but thought that was more of a "long-term" thing. When I realized how quickly it can come loose I zip-tied it. My tension seems good now, and my problem is only in the rear foot or so of my Y.
     
  21. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    When you say you re-squared the gantry what do you mean? Are you talking about loosening screws then squaring with a carpenter's square and re-tightening?
     
  22. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    No. I mean one side's gantry plate was further forward than the other. I turned the power off to the motors, took a small chunk of 2040 v slot placed it between the gantry plate and the Y end bearing plate and hand turned the screw until the gantry plate touched the 2040. Then I repeated on the other side. One side was quite a bit off compared to the other so basically, the gantry was traveling at an angle along the Y axis causing my circles to be slightly oblong and "leaning to the right."
     
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  23. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    Thanks. I understand now.
     
  24. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    I loosened my Y and jogged to the rear but no noticeable difference.

    What I did notice is that when the power is off and I move the Y by hand I have no stalling. When I turn the power on, the left Y axis (right side in video taken from rear) is locked but the other side moves. (Somewhat hard to see the lockup in the 2nd video but I think you'll get my point.) Is this a driver issue? Motor issue?

    You will also notice that the wheels on the top aren't turning when moved, but they are not locked up. The opposing bottom wheel is as tight as I can make it without over-tightening and possibly causing further binding. There is no rocking of either of the Y-assemblies. When this issue is resolved I will look at further re-adjustment but I want to err on the side of looseness for now.
     
    #84 Grimace, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  25. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Just another guess, but could it be something as simple as a wire fracturing, or breaking down, at that point?
    Maybe in the cable train, as it winds up and down?
    I still can't see it being something like the driver itself because it happens in just one area.
    Try opening the cable train and move the wires around when it stalls.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  26. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    You should not be able to move that axis back and forth like you are doing in the video as easily as you are with the power on.
    So please take one more look at the Y axis motor wiring as it seems to be the culprit.

    It can be tricky because it seems to always happen in the same location, but we have to remember that the wires are being stressed differently along the travel of the axis and so if there is a short at any given moment it may simply mean this is where the wire is being stressed and is where the short occurs along the path of travel.

    I will say though if you have had this short in the wiring on one of the Y motors and since it's been powered up. It may have damaged the driver.
     
  27. Grimace

    Grimace New
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    It looks like you and @GrayUK were right! I connected my wire extension for the right Y axis with a small Dupont connector. As the chain started to bend, the wire at the base of the block was bending. I removed the connector and soldered the wires. Problem solved! Hard to believe that I missed this possibility! I never would have thought of it had you both not mentioned it. I ignored the old adage, "Start with the simplest things."

    I did run my board surfacing successfully. I had one small problem, but it was on the X axis, so I don't think it was related. After I reset the job, it ran successfully. I do want to run some more jobs before declaring victory; I have at least learned that much!

    ProTip for anyone experiencing this same problem:
    -Stop the job at point of failure. Check your pairs for continuity at the screws. If you no longer have continuity in one of your pairs, LOOK NO FURTHER!
     
    #87 Grimace, Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  28. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I'm really really pleased you got it sorted!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Now enjoy your machine.
    May Your Chips Fly :D:D:D
     
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  29. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Awesome to hear and great that we all can learn from this to help others.
    Have fun with your machine, we look forward to seeing all the cool projects you create!
     
  30. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    The wiring video is very helpful. Got my machine moving today and used the Openbuilds Control. Have yet to run a job, but setup/config was a breeze. Thank you, @Matthew Bates !
     

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