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WorkBee 1510 Vibration

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Grimace, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    We finished assembling and wiring on our WorkBee 1510 (thanks for the helpful videos!) All wiring components are working. However, I had originally set the X- and Y-axis maximum rate to 10000 as the settings page indicated, but had significant vibration on homing and other movements (see video) until I set the Y-axis speed down to 1500. Though 10000 is more than necessary, operating at 15% of that max speed seems limiting and potentially problematic. There are no obstructions and the belts appear to be tensioned correctly. The noise seems to be from the right Y-axis. Is this a belt or step motor problem? Any ideas?
    @markcarew
     

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  2. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    Can anyone help at all? See post above. Thanks!
     
  3. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Could do with a bit more video of it in action, but it does sound a little like it is stalling, usually due to low amps. :rolleyes:
    Can you not get your ear down to establish exactly where that noise is coming from?
    Is it the motor? Is it the pinion or belt? When you removed the baseboard, did it still do it without a load?
    If you were to lean on the bed as it traveled up and down, does it get worse? :rolleyes:
    Just some guesses until you give us some more video to look at. :)
    Gray
     
  4. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Hello @Grimace
    Congratulations on your Build and thank you for your compliments on the Build videos!
    Lets try a few things to get you up and running:

    -First I would say to turn off all power and make sure that each and every wire has a good solid connection, one loose wire can make for this kind of behavior and this accounts for many drivers getting burnt out as well. Also on the 1510 make sure that the wires are properly reversed on the clone side of the Y axis as shown in the picture below.

    -Second make sure that your board is being cooled as these motors like to pull amps which heats things up and can keep your board going into a thermal protection.

    -Third make sure that your driver board is set up for 1/8th steps like the default is in the video, If its an xPRO you want the jumpers on 1 and 2 for each of the axis.

    p.s. One of the coolest features about OpenBuilds is that its a virtual hackerspace of sorts and so you will get better responses if you post a question related to this machine in the machines discussion thread (WorkBee 1510) where like minded builders who are building the same machine will be hangin out. This helps others who may run into similar hurdles along the build learn as well.

    Hope this helps
    Mark

    OpenBuilds xPRO wiring diagram_OpenBuilds_WorkBee 1510.png
     
  5. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    when I added the wire extensions (18-4) for the 4 motors I checked resistance on each and all seemed OK (around 1.5)

    Mark,
    --Checked all the wires-OK

    --Have a fan on controller. Same effect occurs when board is initially powered up.

    --Jumpers are still on 1 and 2.

    I tried alternately removing the Y-ax and the A wires to test each separately and still had the problem.

    The X-axis runs perfectly at 10k. The Y-ax appears to be most affected at each end; less so in the center section. I removed one end of the left Y belt to inspect; no apparent shredding, etc.. Belt tension seems OK.

    When I move the Y-ax manually, it makes the noise and a red light on the controller flashes. (see Y-ax (manual move) video). What does that light signify?

    Thanks for the posting tip. New to this forum and not really heavy into social media, etc., so all tips are welcome. In my dotage I thought I was doing well to figure out how to get the vids and pics up!
     

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    #5 Grimace, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  6. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Just a tip. Never push the motors manually while connected to a board. The motors generate a charge which is back-fed to the board, and can if moved fast enough, fry components. :banghead:
    I'm thinking aloud here. :)
    When it is running quite well down the Y-axis, what happens if you put a little weight on the gantry or router in that middle area? Does it create that noise? Trying to work out if it is stress/load related. :rolleyes:
    When it is running down the Y-axis, does it always make the noise in the same place? i.e. Are the Y rails going in and out of parallel and causing stress? I've watched the videos again and it does seem to be in the same area, so that answers that question.
    Is it dog-legging I wonder? If you are sure both motors are wired as they should be, and that the steps and amps are the same, then you got to look at the belts, pinions and grub screws.
    If it really comes to it, I would disconnect one of the Y motors by loosening the grub screw and making sure it is free from the drive. Then drive the Y-axis with the one motor and help with your hand to keep the other end square, to see if that eliminates the noised at that particular area.
    P.S. Are you using the Double Belt System?
    P.P.S. I haven't tried to upload videos yet!! :D
     
  7. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Hi Grimace and Gray

    Too me it sounds like bad driver. I say that because it seem it seems to happen right out of the gate after you initiate a move command and the motors begin their wind up. This seems to happen no matter where you are on the rail. Because of this I would rule out mechanical issues. This coupled with the back feed of moving the ganty around says to me there is a bad drive there.

    I would love to get my hands on that board to test out and see if thats the case. In the meantime so we can get you up and running asap we will send out a new xPRO driver board.
    I will reach out to the part store and let them know the situation and that we are troubleshooting it and they will set you up with a new one and a return envelope for you to send back the original board.
    I will use this information to help better the instructions in the video to warn about the backfeed so that builders are more aware of it.

    Sorry for the troubles you are experiencing, CNC'ing is really is a lot of fun once you get up and cutting.
    It's awesome to see everyone come together to help make sure you are taken care of, thats what OpenBuilds is all about. :thumbsup:
    Mark
     
  8. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Good Call Mark :D
    You're probably right :thumbsup:
     
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  9. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    Thanks for the help @markcarew and @GrayUK
     
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  10. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    As the problem seems more pronounced at the ends, I was starting to believe that the rails weren't parallel, or the beams were dog-legged causing the wheels to tighten at the ends. That seems unlikely though, as the engineering seems to allow for little variance. This is my first foray into CNC, so I'm just trying to parse the possible from the likely! My fingers are crossed that Mark is right and it's the board. If not, I'll have to begin deconstructing the machine. After getting this far, that would be a downer! :cry:
     
  11. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    Mark,
    We appreciate your expertise and hope you're correct. That would be the easiest solution! We have enjoyed this project so far, but are getting excited to see this machine work! After the new board is installed I'll post the results in the WorkBee 1510 section.
     
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  12. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Awesome! All of us here have been bitten by the CNC bug and once that happens you just gotta let others know how fun and rewarding it can be. :) Once your up and running you will love having this access to a tool as cool as a CNC machine and you will be making all kinds of cool projects. Can't wait to see them :)
     
  13. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    Mark,
    If you didn't send the board yet, please hold up and watch this video. After reading GrayUk's post I tried running at 10k with a light assist on each Y-axis side. This seemed to fix the problem. Would this indicate that the beams are not squared?
     

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  14. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    No, I would say that is due to the load, and its ability to handle it. :rolleyes:
    Do you get the same effect by helping the other side?
    Try loosening the grub screw on one of the Pinion Timing pulleys so that it is free on one side and see what happens. Just help it so it doesn't dog-leg.
    I still have a gut feeling it is low amps. :confused:
    Take advantage of Mark's offer, if only to eliminate the electrics and program side. You can always send it back. :D
     
  15. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Agreed I think that your are just seeing a driver trying to work, you should have much more power then this as it moves so I really think its been damaged. Lets see what happens once you get the new board and see if that does the trick.
     
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  16. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    I think the problem is solved! I went over the wheels (again). I noted that some opposing wheels were at very different levels of contact. One at the top was spinning freely while the one at the bottom was tight (or vice versa.) I went back and turned all of the eccentric spacers to the maximum looseness and ran the Y-ax at 10k. Seemed to be on the right track. After several rounds of adjusting the six eccentrics on both sides and at different positions on the Y-ax, trying to compromise between the upper and lower wheels, I have no more vibration. The videos shows the results.

    I still have opposing upper and lower wheels that are at varying tightnesses. Some spin freely while the other side is tight. But if I adjust the eccentrics to the correct the one, the opposite side over-tightens and seems to pinch as it moves down the Y-ax. I believe that's why it was acting up more on both ends.

    I will do more testing tomorrow to verify the fix, but the board doesn't seem to be the problem.
     

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  17. joe williams

    joe williams Veteran
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    Seems like I read a post once around here somewhere that mentioned how some builders are using eccentrics on both rows of wheels to be able to adjust a problem like this
     
  18. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    Grimace, did you try adjusting the current pot? really sounds like too low current.
     
  19. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Now that sounds SWEET! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
    That's an awful lot of wheels you got there, so take your time to get them right.
    Really glad you've got a result. :D:D:thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Well Done.
     
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  20. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    @Grimace Though I havent wired mine yet, I definitely have the same issue with the wheels. Ooznest just released a wheel preload video. It may help.

     
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  21. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    While I was adjusting them I was wondering if that was the answer, or would it needlessly complicate things. Not an engineer myself, and so new to this that I'm just trying to take in all the ideas. Nice to know my thoughts weren't too wild, though!
     
  22. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    I want to give it a little more of a shakedown and listen to see if it reoccurs again at different points in the rails. As there are 6 wheels (thus eccentrics) on bottom, and 8 on top it can be a bit tricky! that 1510 Y-ax travels a long way! After the assembly experience, I would say this was the most sensitive part of the build for me. The rest was made easy with the build videos. I thank you for your comments as they set me thinking about the Y going out of whack and what might be causing it, especially on the ends. Nice to find that there are helpful people like the OpenBuilds community to assist! Hopefully I can move on to surfacing my spoiler soon! :D
     
  23. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I would stick to static wheels at the top and Eccentric on the bottoms. At least you will have something that is a "Constant". :thumbsup:
    It can get REALLY confusing with two rows of Eccentrics!! :banghead::banghead:
    For myself, you are welcome, but there are many many people who are here to help. :D
    You will be one of those people yourself, if you keep reading Posts, and things start to ring a bell. :rolleyes:
    I'm comfortable in the mechanical area, whereas many others are really into the program side.
    Let's hope you are on to the next fun bit.:)
    May The Chips Fly For You. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  24. Grimace

    Grimace Journeyman
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    Thanks for that video. It was helpful for me, and I'm sure to others. @sharmstr
     
    #24 Grimace, Sep 24, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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