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Out of square on a Workbee 1010

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Matt38, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. Matt38

    Matt38 Well-Known
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    I'm having an issue getting the frame of my workbee 1010 square. I've followed the tips for squaring in the build video, even adjusting the Y plates and making sure the wheels had no pre-load. I'm off by about 1/16" on the front left. For a while the back right was off as well, but now the back is square and the front left is still out, which seems weird. Any tips?
     
  2. sharmstr

    sharmstr Veteran
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    I could get my frame square, but not the gantry. I ended up using a shim.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Matt38

    Matt38 Well-Known
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    Thanks for the suggestion, I still think it's an issue getting good the frame square. I saw your post earlier and kind of had the same issue where it would spring back out. I was thinking it was preload on the wheels, but that doesn't seem to be it either. It also doesn't seem to happen until I start to tighten things down.
     
  4. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Logic would say that if the rear right was wrong, and squaring that corner up, has increased the error of the front left only, then the lengths of the Y may well be different.
     
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  5. Matt38

    Matt38 Well-Known
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    I've since disassembled the frame, measured both c beams and v slots, they're all the same respectively. Once I reassembled the frame, it happened again. This time I noticed that if I loosened the screws for the wheels on Y plates, the issue diminished a bit. The front left side is off by about the thickness of a piece of paper, but still has "spring" to it. When I pull it towards the frame, it moves back away from the frame roughly the same amount each time. I'll keep messing with it, I'll get it eventually. I'll post video in the aternoon, EST.
     
    #5 Matt38, Jul 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
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  6. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    I am having the exact same problem. I can’t get my Y axes squared. Same as you, I noticed that loosening the screws on the 20x40 v-slot of the X axis helps close the gap, but as soon as it is torqued down, the gap goes back to what it was before.
    Using a carpenter’s square, I noticed that the C-beam on the X axis is not perfectly squared with the side plates. One side is worse than the other, but I am not sure how to correct that problem. IMHO, this is causing the problem as it is putting uneven pressure on the Y axes causing them to not be squared. I’ll post some pictures tomorrow.
     
  7. Matt38

    Matt38 Well-Known
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    Yeah, I didn't post a video or images yet, mine is off by the width if a paper now with it torqued down. Now one of my anti-backlash nuts wasn't threaded properly. I think the issue is they haven't cut the vslots square or at 90. I think a shim in the x axis might help, but shouldn't have been needed in the first place.
     
  8. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    I believe all extrusions are shipped a little long and the end user is supposed to square them up. I thought it used to say that in the product description, but I did not see it just now. I believe mine all came about 20 mm longer than the product description. I cut mine square with a chop saw that I squared up prior to cutting.
     
  9. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    Here are some pictures of my X gantry. I used a square against the side plates and measured on both sides of the C-Beam.
     

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  10. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    These are the gaps of the each side of the X gantry to the v-slot.
     

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  11. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    And these are pictures of the Y axis while checking for squareness
     

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  12. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    Well guys, it does seem like the C-Beams were not cut perfectly squared. I haven’t checked the v-slots, but if they used the same machine to trim them all, I am guessing they were cut crooked as well.
    Do you guys think the openbuilds store should send me replacements or should I attempt having someone locally square the edges? I have a 12” sliding miter saw I use for woodwork. I would need a new $100+ carbide tip blade and square my saw again. It seems like a lot of work and money to fix a problem I shouldn’t have had in the first place.
    I am going to test the other two C-Beams and see if I get lucky with one that has the edges squared. Will post back.
     
  13. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    OK. Last post for now. I checked all the C-Beams and none of the edges are squared. What a bummer; I was hoping to have this machine up and running by the end of this week, but it looks like it won’t happen.
    The picture shows how much clearance there is when it lays flat on its edge.
     

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  14. cmitcham

    cmitcham Well-Known
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    i bought pretty much every piece needed for a workbee from the openbuilds parts store a few weeks before they announced their kit. clearly, i have to cut and square my pieces. but if i bought a workbee NNN x NNN kit from them, i would expect the pieces to be the correct length and cut square.

    just one opinion.
     
  15. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    How long were the Cbeams? I am curious. As I mentioned before, when I purchased them before, I believe they came longer than listed because the end user is to square them. But, this should be mentioned. I didn't see it mentioned anymore like when I bought mine. I have a full piece of 1500 mm left over from 2 years ago that is actually 1505 mm. If the build package was sold as though everything was cut square and to exact length, then I would agree that you shouldn't have to do this.

    Also, if you do square them yourself, you do not need a $100 blade. Any carbide blade 60 tooth or higher on a miter (or table) saw should work. I purchased a cheap ($30-ish) Harbor Freight 12" blade to chop up tree branches to firewood size and it slices through aluminum extrusion like butter. It worked so well, my Dewalt blade is still in the packaging. Squaring a miter saw takes all of 5 minutes, maybe 10.
     
  16. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    The workbee 1010 from openbuilds comes as a kit. The packing list shows all parts including the extrusions to their final lengths; the kit is nicely put together with everything labeled, even the extrusions. Also, all c-beams came pre-tapped which to me indicates that they are ready for assembly. I emailed openbuilds, so we’ll see what they reply. Thanks for all your feedback.
     
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  17. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Hello, @Giarc @GrayUK Yes, we do try to leave the V-Slot a tad longer (1-2mm) to allow for custom cuts & trims. However, C-Beam is cut to length as the ends are tapped and they are usually used in conjunction with plate sets so we found though our test builds that having them pre-made is a big help during the build. We thank you for reporting this squaring so it can be address. In our processes, we are working toward having everything squared and cut to exact lengths going forward with all sizes of V-Slot.
     
  18. TrishC

    TrishC OpenBuilds Team
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    Hey guys. @Hector Beltran - reached out to the Part Store today about the cuts on his C-Beam not being square. Thank you for this feedback as this helps us improve our quality. The fastest way to resolution is to reach out to the Part Store directly if you need assistance relating to OpenBuilds Parts - [email protected].
     
  19. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    Hi Guys, I thought I would give you an update and resolution. Hopefully this information will also help the guys at the openbuildstore.

    If you recall, while I was putting my Workbee 1010 together, I had a tough time getting the X-Gantry squared with the Y axis. After hours of testing and rechecking, I came to the conclusion that the C-Beams were not squared. In fact, some of the pictures above show how off they were which was very surprising to me, yet I thought some times things like these happen. I contacted the openbuilds store and they were great; excellent customer service. They shipped replacements right away, in time to finish my build over the weekend.
    Well, the replacement C-beams came in and they were not squared either. I decided to take a break for a day to gather my thoughts. After careful inspection on every single extrusion, I came to the following conclusion. When the holes were tapped, it appears that the aluminum around the holes at the very end of the extrusion bulged outwards making the ends wobble. I am guessing it is due to material displacement. Therefore, the ends of the extrusions were not perfectly flat anymore due to the bulge and exhibited a slight rocking motion when placed on top of a flat surface. I tried filing it off, but it didn't work well as it was nearly impossible keeping the file flat. I went to Home Depot, bought a 96 tooth Diablo non-ferrous blade for my miter saw. After about half an hour getting the miter saw perfectly calibrated and true, I took a couple of millimeters off the X Gantry C-Beam and 20x40 v-slot. The 20x40 fits inside the C-beam, so I used tape on the top side only to hold the v-slot firm on the c-beam. This cut solved my issues with the X-Gantry alignment with the Y-axis. In addition, since I ended shortening my X-Gantry by 2.53mm, I had to trim the same amount (2.53mm) off the other 2 v-slots of the frame, so everything would line up properly.

    In conclusion, be careful when tapping threads on your extrusions. If they need to be flush against another surface, make sure you tap those holes with a sharp tap set and lubrication. For the guys at the openbuildstore, after tapping the holes, you need to make sure the extrusions are square and have no rocking motion when place on either one of its ends. You could cut them a bit long, tap the holes, and then cut them to final size. My build ended being 2.53mm narrower, but it is perfectly squared now.
     
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  20. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Thank you again for your feedback guys please know that we will be adding this to the processes of tapping and cutting to ensure the best possible build experience for the community.
     
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  21. Tracy Ranson

    Tracy Ranson Journeyman
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    Never assume that the rails you receive are the same lengths. If you are having a squaring issue that is driving you nuts and you have tried everything including shimming and nothing seems to work, I highly recommend that you measure the linear rails and check the ends to make sure that they were cut square.

    Every rail that I have purchased from opensbuilds has either been too short or too long not to mention that the cut ends are not square. It is no wonder some folks cannot seem to get their machines squared up and they use things like shims or they spend hours trying to file the ends square.
    I read in the description that the rails are precise, easy to work with, if that is the case why do so many people struggle with getting things squared up.

    I literally gave up on a build that I have been working on for 3 years because the rails that I received were not cut accurately, the lengths varied quite a bit and the ends were not squared up. I contacted a couple of machine shops around town and they wanted $200 to $300 to square up the ends and cut all of the rails to exact lengths within .005 +/- of each other.

    I don't own a precision chop saw, or machinist square, It would be nice to be able to order rails that were cut to the exact length with perfectly squared ends.

    I have been an Openbuilds customer for several years, It literally takes me months to save up enough money to purchase parts and to be disappointed when I get them. Even though I have been disappointed with the rails that I have received, I still recommend Openbuilds to folks who are members of my Facebook group. I recommend Openbuilds because I believe in Openbuilds. Sorry for the rant folks
    .
     
  22. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    I am not sure what tools are available to Openbuilds, but just about any miter saw with a decent blade can be calibrated to be within fairly tight tolerances. In addition, there is no reason why extrusions that are meant to be the same length, aren’t. It is why providing feedback both good and bad is important.
    My build took longer than anticipated, but I am happy how it is turning out. Once I start making some cuts, I’ll share more comments.
     
  23. Tracy Ranson

    Tracy Ranson Journeyman
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    I spend a lot of time lurking around in the builds section and I see a lot of cool builds I just wish I could get mine finished but at this rate it will never happen.
     
  24. Eric Arnold

    Eric Arnold Well-Known
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    Hi - New member and OpenBuilds customer here. Just putting together my new Workbee 1010. Thanks for all of your info. I guess I wish that I had come across this thread before spending my entire morning trying to square the frame, which will not square. It's still about 1 cm off on two corners. Most of you in this thread appear to have more experience than I with machining, and taking such steps of re-cutting rails worries me. I'm wondering about the best course of action to take.

    Here's a question... I'm curious, what would happen if I went ahead and continued the build and used the machine as is?? The gantry and wheels seem to slide and turn consistently well across the entire cutting area.
    Thanks
     
  25. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Providing your Y axis are parallel and vertical, and your X axis is square and vertical to the Y axis, then in theory, the machine should function. However, there are many ways it could be out of true, it would simply be easier to check and square up the ends of the rails. :rolleyes:
     
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  26. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Check out this video by DaztheGaz, he talks about the similar problems you had, but he also shows you how to sort out the uneven cut problem.

    Watch from the 3 minute mark. :D
     
  27. Eric Arnold

    Eric Arnold Well-Known
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    Thanks GrayUK. Interesting method to square the ends, and entertaining video. Since I'm relatively new to all of this, I lack the extra router and extra beams to make such a cutting jig, so my additional expenses will include purchasing these (which I'd like more than my wife) or hiring a machine shop (or finding a friend who works in a local shop). Today, I'll look around for these solutions. Thanks for your prompt info.
     
  28. Eric Arnold

    Eric Arnold Well-Known
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    So, after a somewhat restless night of sleep dreaming about C-beams jumping over fences, I got up this morning, brewed some coffee, and dismantled the frame. It sure comes apart faster than going together the first time. And, sure enough, it appeared rough cut. Yes, I must admit that I was under the assumption that the pieces would fit well enough together. So today, I will look around for solutions to squaring up and smoothing all of the edges. This summer, I spent quite a bit of time researching CNC machines. I was looking for something that could cut at least 24" or 32" square, and all of the new or used pre-built lead-screw driven machines would have cost at least $3000, so I kept coming back to OpenBuilds and, like you, tend to gravitate to the open designs. I know of an engineering lab at a state school that swears by these machines. Since I am on a tight school budget, my hope is that my additional expenses don't add up to the amount I could've spent on a pre-built.
     
  29. Hector Beltran

    Hector Beltran Well-Known
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    Good luck getting your extrusions squared. It’s not hard with the right equipment. IMHO, a miter saw is the way to go. BTW, make sure you get all your extrusions cut accordingly. The X gantry has a C-beam and a 20x40 which have to be the same length. In addition, the (2) 20x40s that are parallel to the X gantry need to be shortened by as much as you take out of the X gantry. I didn’t bother squaring the (2) C-beams in the Y axis.
     
  30. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Hi Eric.
    Yes, this is the way I do it. :thumbsup: However, if you don't have the spare extrusion, as many of us don't, you can pretty much do it with wood and a good set square. :) I'm sure you know someone with a saw table who could cut some timber to size for you. Are you planing on using a Router as your cutter on the CNC? Good if you are, kill two birds. The kitchen top router bits are quite cheap nowadays on Ebay or similar. :thumbsup:
    Gray
     

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