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WorkBee CNC Machine

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Ryan Lock, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    NEMA is a standard one of which is a dimensional standard. So all NEMA 23 have the same mounting. The only thing that changes is the length.

    Since you are new, do yourself a favor and get the recommenced high torque motors, power supply and controller. Where are you buying from? That will determine the recommendations we give you.
     
    #541 sharmstr, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  2. Mr McPenny

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    Thanks for your quick response. I couldn't agree more about using recommended devices. I guess that's part of what I was looking for - recommendations. And, as I said, I am not interested in buying cheap knock offs, so I am open to suggestions as to where to buy them.

    The WorkBee kit is offered by Maker Store - USA [might be related to Open Builds??] They offer a high torque motor '
    High Torque 2.45N.m' The torque is expressed differently than other specifications I've seen - I don't know if it's stronger - weaker - the same as . I'm guessing the N.m designation is Newton Meters. Other motors use an ounce measurement - may inch / ounce. If all that's correct, the one they offer is over two times as 'strong'. Am I on the right track?
     
  3. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Welcome to the forum @Mr McPenny - you have come to the right place for advice!

    If you want genuine Openbuilds parts (and the support you get with them) then look here;

    OpenBuilds Workbee 1010 (40" x 40")

    and here;

    BlackBox Motion Control System

    You can choose the options you want in the first link, and the second link is to the blackbox controller - designed from the ground up with beginners in mind.

    Alex.
     
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  4. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    As Alex said, if you are in the USA, you should really consider buying from OpenBuilds. You didnt say what size you wanted. If you want the 1010 size, then you have two options. The workbee or the lead. Maybe someone from OpenBuilds can explain the difference in them better than I can, besides the slightly better Z height clearance on the Workbee. I have a Workbee, but there's a lot of people happy with the LEAD.

    Either way, go with the OB high torque motors and their 24v power supply bundle. Pair that with the Blackbox. If you get the Workbee, also had the wiring kit and the Xtension limit switches (the Lead comes with those).
     
  5. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Workbee: custom plates
    LEAD: All off the shelf modular parts, makes modification practically limitless
     
  6. Mr McPenny

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    OK! Now we're getting somewhere! That information is very helpful. I'll get the high torque motors and the Black Box - I see in the documentation for the Black Box, there is a power supply recommendation. I'll get those things and put together minus the mechanics to make sure it all works with my computer and your software. Once I can get the motors wiggling on command, I'll be ready to lay the cash for the mechanics. You've all been most helpful. I appreciate your input.
     
  7. Metalguru

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    My personal take on motors is that the stock 185 oz in is more than sufficient for normal use. Larger motors are used for larger machines that have more inertia. Also, the larger motor has more limited specs, particularly speed and acceleration. The 225 oz in is also a good choice. IMHO, the 425 oz in is overkill for a machine this size. CNC Router Parts uses 425 oz in motors on their 4'x8' machines. Higher drive voltage and/or higher current will have a large effect on speed. Larger motors tend to be higher inductance, which limits maximum speeds. Get the lowest inductance motors you can find for best performance.

    Yes, NEMA 23 refers to the flange size of the motor, all NEMA 23 motors are interchangeable. Only the body length varies.

    Meanwell makes good power supplies, I have never had one fail out of more than 100 machines. Just make sure you get them in the US, and that they have UL approval. A single power supply is sufficient for NEMA 23 motors. Needs to have a current rating equal or greater than the sum of all motors. If your drivers can handle it, go with a 36V power supply. That will usually get you a good performance increase. If not, 24V is sufficient.

    Stepperonline makes good stuff, even though they are a China based company. Make sure you buy brand name drivers, a lot of the Chinese clone designs are junk. Gecko also makes great quality components, but at a price. Stepperonline also has a good selection of motors available on Amazon.

    MG
     
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  8. Mr McPenny

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    Metal, thank you very much! Lot's of good detail - very helpful.

    I was looking at Stepperonline, but then a little concerned too - I don't want to seen as a traitor to Open Builds. You guys are my only mentors! I won't be taken to the wood shed if I don't get Black Box?
     
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  9. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    By no means. Just be aware that if you pick something totally out of left field and then have a problem with it no one here may be able to give a decent answer toward a solution. The BlackBox has a decent support base.

    But we are getting Ryan Lock's Workbee discussion off track here. If this subject needs to go any further it needs to be taken to another thread.
     
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  10. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Can't promise your handbrake wont (; when you end up buying twice to fix the mistake of some wrong initial purchase (;
     
  11. Ryan Lock

    Ryan Lock Veteran
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    Hi @Mr McPenny, Thanks for taking interest in the WorkBee and it is great to see you want to get involved in the world of CNC Machining. Any WorkBee + Other parts from the suppliers you have mentioned above should work well as they are all reputable.

    We do ship our Original WorkBee Full Kits worldwide and they include everything you need, minus a spoilerboard, to get up and running. With the GBPUSD being quite weak at the moment they probably work out quite cheap for US based customers. We also offer full support via email and telephone, and if you struggle with the software side of things we can Teamviewer with you and remotely get you setup free of charge :)

    Let me know if you have any questions

    Ryan
     
  12. Hector Beltran

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    Hi guys, I was making some eccentric clamps yesterday, and I noticed some chatter (jerking in the X axis) while doing and adaptive clearing operation and contouring operations. A lot of tool marks and not a perfect circle. Broke an end mill in the process. Here are some of my feeds and speeds from Fusion360. The material is 17mm birch plywood. Any feedback will be appreciated.
     

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  13. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Have you checked that nothing has worked loose on your machine. You don't give us any details of the machine (size, leadscrew or belt drive, controller etc) What happens if you machine (light cut - say 0.5 mm) a simple circle as a 2D contour.
    Alex.
     
  14. Hector Beltran

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    Thanks Alex. Sorry, my bad. It is a workable 1010 lead screw. I have jogged the machine in all directions a few times. Haven't noticed any issues. I am wondering if the feeds and speeds and depth of cut are too much for a 1/8 bit on birch plywood.
     
  15. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    They didn't look too far off to me. This chart might help - it gives speeds and feeds for a 1/4" bit (but doesn't say what type of bit - No of flutes etc)

    Speeds and feeds
     
  16. Hector Beltran

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    Thanks, I’ll check out the link. Here are some images of the part milled.
    The round holes are not round, there are a few tool marks here and there. The lower round section has some flat spots.
    The workpiece was placed with wood grain parallel the X axis.
     

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  17. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    If circles are not round the most likely cause is backlash. Looking at your pictures I would suggest you start looking for play in the X axis. Start at the bit and gradually work back looking for anything that moves - if your steppers are powered they shouldn't move when jiggling things by hand.
    Alex.
     
  18. Hector Beltran

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    Thanks again Alex, I will take a look at my X axis. I need to take it apart anyways for a mod I’ve been wanting to do, so I’ll inspect it carefully.
     
  19. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    The feeds, doc and woc look okay to me.

    Tool marks are to be expected with adaptive toolpaths (ALWAYS!). You should always leave about .010" to .020" radial stock, then come back and do a finish pass. You can also expect them when you do a contour at full WOC, which it looks like you're doing but hard to say without knowing what stock you started with. Again, leave some radial stock and come back with finishing pass. Here's how I would setup your toolpaths.

    1 - Adaptive (like you have) but leave a small amount of radial stock.
    2 - Add a new contour toolpath and constrain it so it only cleans up the top wall.
    3 - Contour at multiple depths like you have but leave a small amount of radial stock.
    4 - Add new contour toolpath at full depth to clean up wall.

    Obviously, you can set up these finishing passes in the Adaptive and first contour toolpath, but I prefer to separate them out so you can easily run just the finish pass. This is helpful when you're trying to dial in an exact dimension.

    For the non-round holes, have you calibrated your steps per mm correctly?
     
  20. Hector Beltran

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    Great tips. Prior to this project, I used only pine which was no problem with adaptive passes sans a final tool pass. I am guessing this plywood is pretty hard in comparison to pine.
    I started with 170mm x 170mm x 17mm piece of birch plywood. The machine is calibrated with the proper steps, but I will double check.
    I appreciate all your help and will post back my findings.
     
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  21. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Plywood, that resin glue layer is the hard bit, got to dial back all settings as if your are milling resin else in the glue layer you break bits (;
    Same with regular wood, don't tune for the soft sapwood, tune for the harder bits of wood in it
     
  22. Hector Beltran

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    I think I may have found the problem - Alex :thumbsup:. I checked the X-axis play, and indeed there was some play. I recall soon after I had crashed the X axis a couple of weeks ago and didn't bother checking the aftermath. The anti backlash blocks were knocked out of place. I did a quick adjustment and it appears everything is back to normal. I run out of stock plywood but will run some circle milling tests later today on the remnants I have left. Will post back.
     
  23. Hector Beltran

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    Thanks Peter. It makes sense. I will dial it back a little. I did scale back the travel speed thru the Open Builds Control software during the cutting operations, but that was after on bit broke. :)
     
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  24. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Pleased to hear that - the clue was that your circles had flat spots.
    Alex.
     
  25. Metalguru

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    When your circles have discontinuities on the top and bottom (Y plane), that means your Y axis has backlash.

    When your circles have discontinuities on the left and right, (X plane), that means your X axis has backlash.

    The discontinuities will appear every time the axis reverses direction.

    Crashing into the end stops can cause things to loosen up. Usual suspects are lock rings on the lead screw, not very often the Lead Nuts get knocked out. This is a clue that the screws were not tight enough.

    Here is a small g-code program that does a couple circles and squares so you can check for problems. If the diameter of the circle or width of the square is out, it means your calibration needs to be checked. Note that this is a text file, change the extension to whatever your G-Code Sender program recognizes. It does 2 passes of 1.5mm each on the Z axis. Note that this g-code is metric, not Imperial.

    MG
     

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  26. Hector Beltran

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    Cool stuff. I tried adjusting the lock collars first, but the play although better was still there. To adjust the anti backlash blocks, I first loosen them up, loosen one lock collar and the stepper motor collar as well. I then turn the lead screw by hand one direction to remove the play of one block, tighten it, turn the lead screw in the opposite direction, tighten the other block. I then proceed to tighten the lock collar and the stepper collar. If there is a better way, please share. I never had an issue with the Y axis, but the Z axis backlash has been challenging to adjust at times.
     
  27. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    If the play is only the nut blocks, loosen one nut block, squeeze gently together, tighten nut block.
    Alex.
     
  28. Hector Beltran

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    Found a big enough scrap of plywood to run another job. Retuned milling operations to leave some stock and do a final clean contour. It came out really good. One thing that I am trying to figure out is that the part came out consistently ~0.50mm-0.60mm bigger pretty much everywhere. I’ll have to measure the end mill tomorrow, but I am glad I got rid of that backlash issue.
    1B6F894C-699B-4EB9-A6F8-FC7D66E839AF.jpeg A41964CB-2163-4D31-B741-57502A324F30.jpeg
     
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