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Workbee 1000x1000 Y-Axis problem

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Travis101, Apr 30, 2020.

  1. Travis101

    Travis101 New
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    Hey everyone I bought and assembled a workbee 1000x1000 CNC from [spam link removed] (I know everyones opinion on this now, i didn't know better when i bought it). The machine is running and connects to my laptop without issues.

    The problem i can't seem to figure out is why the Y-Axis won't move symmetrically. This seems to mainly be a problem on starting to move and stopping. I have a video of this to show exactly what I mean.





    Loosening the nut blocks seems to allow it to move a bit more freely (but i thought these were supposed to be tight?)

    I have adjusted all the eccentric spacers to their loosest position and when I disconnect the motors from the lead screws the Y-Axis moves freely without any real resistance.



    I suspect maybe the motors aren't strong enough? or the drivers are the issue?
    I will include links for what I purchased and can provide any other info that might help. If anyone could suggest a fix or something to try I would greatly appreciate it
     
    #1 Travis101, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2021
  2. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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    It could be loose wiring to the motors, or it might be the CNC shield and the DRV8825 drivers that came with it. They are not designed for a larger heavier machine and it is a shame they are sold as such. On a smaller desktop machine or laser cutter they will probably work fine. On a larger machine with a heavy gantry they over heat very easily unless there is a very good cooling system and heat sinks. When they overheat, they start to stall and miss steps. There could also be a problem with some other component. Have you tried [spam link removed] customer support to see if they have any ideas?

    Also, the CNC Shield V3 [spam link removed] sold you is an outdated clone of the Protoneer (original designer) and the GRBL pinout has changed since that board was developed. So, the Z homing may not function as expected. I believe the most current Protoneer board is V3.51 and is fully compatible with GRBL 0.9 and up. I am surprised the older ones are still for sale when an original Protoneer 3.51 board can be bought or $14.95.
     
    #2 Giarc, May 1, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2021
  3. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Openbuilds team
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    In addition to @Giarc 's comments (drivers are the most likely cause), look down on the Y gantries - is the leadscrew parallel to the gantry plates? One problem with the [knockoff seller] kits is that the spacers between the nut blocks and the gantry plates doesn't sit properly and the nut blocks are at an angle, forcing the leadscrew also at an angle. If you can't tighten the nut blocks to the plate then they are not doing their job. Likewise with the eccentrics - unless you can adjust them properly this machine will be unusable. Good luck and do come back with any further questions.
    Alex.
     
    #3 Alex Chambers, May 1, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2021
  4. Travis101

    Travis101 New
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    If I can't get this system up and running with what I have I am too deep now to not spend some more and get it working. It doesn't seem to be an overheating issue because it happens as soon as it's powered up. That being said i'm sure that will be another problem I will run into. As far as the CNC shield I soldered onto the proper pin to supply the Z-limit.
    [​IMG]

    Other than the Z-limit pinout is there a quality issue there? or should it be fine?
    Also I did send a message off to Bulkman3D support and am waiting for a reply

    I did add small spacers on both sides to get the lead screws looking closer to what looks straight to my eye. Not 100% sure what you mean by sitting at an angle, unless spacing like i did is what you mean. The eccentrics can be tightened and it still runs the same, I just loosened them all in hopes of solving this problem first.

    IMG_20200501_163024.jpg

    Thanks for the responses I do appreciate the help, if I have to upgrade the motors and electronics so be it. I've kicked my *** before. I'm open to any suggestions on what I may need to buy / change.
     

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  5. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Openbuilds team
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    This is what I meant - a picture of a problem someone else had with a SPAM workbee;-

    Bulkman leadscrew.jpg
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Motors may work, but definately replace the CNC shield with a BlackBox (see OpenBuilds BlackBox 4X Documentation) - just note their motors have different color codes than ours, so when it comes to hookup, don't go by the docs (which is for our motors), use the coil pairs as identified on the CNC shield (same wiring order left to right)

    CNC Shield with Pololu style drivers can only give about 500-700mA before they overheat (drivers heatsink through PCB solder pads, and those little breakout PCBs are way to small to heatsink)
    BlackBox can handle 3200mA RMS (4000mA Peaks) (;
     
  7. Travis101

    Travis101 New
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    Thanks for the pic, I have taken the Y-Axis Gantry completely off and ensured that this isn't my problem. I then leveled the machine and laid a level across the nut blocks and tightened them into place with the lead screw through both. After this I slid the Y-Axis Gantry back on and adjusted each eccentric spacer until every wheel moved on both sides. The machine definitely feels more rigid and smooth to move by hand, however I still have the same original issue when trying to jog the machine.


    I am looking at ordering the "BlackBox Motion Control System". Should I need to order anything else to wire this up to what I currently have? I am assuming the 24v Power Supply i have should be sufficient. What about the connector ends that plug into the BlackBox are they included or will the ones on the motors work?
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Depends what you have, 24v, 200w and up will do, but we do highly recommend the 24V Meanwell Power Supply Bundle - the Meanwell's put out nice clean and trusted power. Be especially careful of amazon specials sold as LED Power supplies from the east (may affect your warranty too, we have a list of known bad characters) . They are cheap because all the filtering and protection got removed. LEDs are robust so it "works" but with sensitive electronics, those can cause damage if they don't have good filtering to give good clean power (no surges, etc)

    :) Refer step 1 of OpenBuilds BlackBox 4X Documentation (yes, included)
     
  9. Travis101

    Travis101 New
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    My power supply is a Meanwell :thumbsup:, Blackbox is ordered. I'll give an update once I have it installed, it's coming to Canada so might take a couple weeks.
    Fingers crossed this is the fix
     
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  10. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    It will, CNC shield is an absolutely inadequate platform. There's a reason you can buy a CNC shield with drivers for $8 (;
    It was designed as fun little experimentation board by Protoneer, then stolen by China, and then Bman uses them so he can line his pockets... Worst thing ever :)
     
  11. Travis101

    Travis101 New
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    Well I installed the Blackbox and WOW. My problems were solved!



    I am blown away by the difference, now i'm actually starting to enjoy this machine lol.
    I thank you very much for the advice and support.
     
  12. Travis101

    Travis101 New
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    I am having a problem with it stopping randomly during a job, but from what I can read this is caused by EMI. So I am going to try a different USB Cable and rerouting some wires.
    I get what to me looks like random numbers in the Serial Console when it stops moving

    IMG_20200524_135501.jpg IMG_20200524_141920.jpg

    I have managed to run a few successful jobs though :)
     
  13. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    Hi Travis, looks like your router power cable is in the cable chains? Might be the cause. Either string it outside and up out of the chains or if you are comfortable with electrons replace the factory cable with shielded 16-18awg cable.
    the key with emi is shielding and earth grounding. everything should be grounding back to your PSU (the chassis has several m4 threaded holes) which should be grounded at the mains plug.
    Cheers
    Gary
     
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  14. Shubbs21

    Shubbs21 New
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    Hi, im brand new to CNC and have a knockoff workbee, 1500 x 1500, from [spam link removed] Have exactly the same problem here where the Y-A axis wont synch and we then took motors off, and looks like the motors are stalling mid movement. Ie they move for a bit then kind of vibrate for a bit then continue on again which knocks the Y-A out of synch. Exaclty same thing now happening with X-Axis. Will the black box work for us also? running Mach 3 with Nema 23 motors, NVUM V2, 4 axis controller and TB6600 drivers. This setup appears to be problematic and would welcome a plug an play option. Also have a 2.2kw Huanyang 120V water cooled spindle hooked up. Any info on the black box and whether it might work for us would be appreciated. Thanks
     
  15. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    BlackBox and our motors preferably. That vendor is known for selling high inductance motors that are going to be very slow and weak
     
  16. Shubbs21

    Shubbs21 New
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    Will the black box work with the original motors? Also, do you have a link to your motors as well?
     
  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    As mentioned above:


    True for any controller, but if you have the awesome BlackBox, whats the fun in topping out at around 1/3rd the speed (yes it "works" but not optimally - high inductance motors cause self-braking at higher RPMs) as if you had the genuine stuff? Sure, you save a little, but still have a severely limited machine. Rather sell the motors off with the scrapped controller for example.


    See Electronics - Stepper Motors - OpenBuilds Part Store
    But, you also have a power supply of unknown pedigree (if it surges and kills the BlackBox your warranty is going to be void). You probably don't have the good limit switches either (so you'll have EMI issues all the time. Consider the full kit: CNC Electronics Bundle very strongly.
     
  18. Shubbs21

    Shubbs21 New
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    Are there any issues running the kit you listed with Mach 3?
     
  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Mach3 has been retired since 2012 (see bottom of https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Changelist90.txt)

    See docs:software:overview [OpenBuilds Documentation] for a more modern software overview
    and also see:
     
  20. Shubbs21

    Shubbs21 New
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    thanks for the info, I will certainly have a good read through all that! so does the black box and kit you listed work as plug and play with Mach 3?
     
  21. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    No, because Mach3 is loooong dead :) - no new releases in the last 9 years - no intention (or use) supporting something that outdated

    it uses OpenBuildsCONTROL software:
    [​IMG]


    Or, you don't even need any controller software, if you add on the OpenBuildsInterface:

     
  22. Shubbs21

    Shubbs21 New
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    ok thanks. will check it out.
     
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  24. Shubbs21

    Shubbs21 New
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    will do thankks!
     

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