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Surfacing Lead 1515 Spoilboard

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Logan Blankenship, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. Logan Blankenship

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    I'm about ready to surface my spoilboard for the first time. After watching a few videos I noticed the cut area for the machine doesn't allow the entire spoilboard to be cut leaving ridges around the perimeter of the spoilboard.

    Wouldn't this be an issue if your stock your cutting rests over these edges? I've also noticed some machines have an MDF board and an additional smaller spoil board on top that seems to be limited to the cutting area. However, the lead 1515 has the v-slots running through the 3 spoilboard panels so I figured the whole thing was intended to be surfaced. Is this the case? Should you be able to surface all 3 panels on the lead 1515? I know I hit my limit switches before getting to the edges of the outer panels.

    Thanks!
    Logan
     
  2. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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    How much if a lip is left? I use a 3/4" surfacing bit and can surface my spoilboard without leaving a lip on three of the four sides. The fourth is along the y and I like the lip that is parallel with the y so I can line up stock off of it.

    Can you eliminate your lip with a larger diameter endmill?
     
  3. jnsbanman

    jnsbanman Well-Known
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    I just did this today on the same size machine. The 1/2 - 3/4” lip that was left on the right side I cut flush with a utility knife. A sharp blade will cut MDF like butter.
     
  4. Rhett E

    Rhett E Well-Known
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    The cutting area is different than the actual surface area. I put the additional spoilboard on mine to accommodate a bunch of functional t-tracks and the new spoilboard is easily replaceable where the original one is not. Search "tram" or "tramming" before you start cutting that big surface.
     
  5. Logan Blankenship

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    I ran a quick test and took a few passes at the front of my spoil board. I took 1mm off because I'm still waiting on a dial to gauge my tramming. I have about 1.75" on both sides of my y axis. My cutting area does seem to match the machine specs. However, it still seems like you wouldn't be able to use the whole table to clamp your stock (around the edges of the table) since the cutting area will be recessed when surfaced.
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Only if your stock is bigger than the cutting area. You still surface though, as its the best method to align bed to bit. Then afterwards take a plane or other tool to the remainder. Or do the exact work size secondary spoilboard - can still clamp through to the vslot below
     
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  7. Netechsys

    Netechsys Well-Known
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    I also have a 1515. The stock axis dimensions are only 1170 X x 1250mm Y. If you put a spoiler in that cover the entire opening, you will have an area on both sides, and some off the back, that is not covered when you do a surface of the spoiler board. Even with the changes I have made, my workable area is only 1220mm X and 1370 Y. I use the lip on the left and right as a straight edge to help align material.

    If you want to have a completely surfaced spoiler board, you could just shorten the X portion and add T-Track to the left and right of the spoiler board.
    Just a thought.
     
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  8. JustinTime

    JustinTime Journeyman
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    I know, using a dial indicator is more precise, and I have one but I didn't use it for my tramming. I used a square and a strait rod. I clamped the rod in the collet and checked both X and Y direction. I than turned the collet about 45° and checked again on the X and Y. When I had it perfect I surfaced the spoiler board and to my great satisfaction it had no tiny ridges that would have an off tramming situation.
     
  9. Logan Blankenship

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    After doing some more testing, (my dials should be here tomorrow) I've found my router leans ever so slightly forward. I've noticed that it will do this when I start to tighten down on the mounting plate. I also noticed when using a square on my spoilboard, there is a slight gap on my lower x c-beam. Any ideas on how to adjust this @Peter Van Der Walt? I've seen this video referenced on a few other threads but I'm not exactly sure which screws I need to loosen. There's just so many cast corner connectors I'm not really sure which ones I need to loosen. Additionally, when I check the ends of the c-beam it is completely pressed against my Z axis. So I'm not sure if it's somehow twisting between the two ends or not.
     
  10. Rhett E

    Rhett E Well-Known
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    Unless you have the high Z your dial indicator probably isn't going to rotate around 360 degrees. Even if it does these machines don't have fine adjustments to use it easily. Consider using the dial indicator and a piece of glass on the spoilboard to reference. Tons of videos on this. Once you have the glass perfect, use this as your reference and do what, Justin said. I did this as well but with 1-2-3 blocks and a broken bit. Put a light behind block and bit and you can see exactly where you need to adjust. You'll chase your tail all day with that dial indicator. They probably work great on machines with built-in adjustment knobs.
     
  11. Logan Blankenship

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    I finally got my x axis trammed but even with everything tightened down all the way it seems pretty easy to knock it out of alignment. I figure as soon as I loosen the collet to switch bits it's going to throw it out.

    I'm also off a decent amount front to back. I've tightened down all screws and made sure my x extrusions are touching all parts of my z columns. I'm not sure what else to do to adjust. Any tips would be appreciated. I've added a few photos to show where I'm at currently.

    It may also be worth noting I only plan to mill wood with this machine primarily for furniture making. So maybe the tolerances I'm getting are okay for my medium? However I'm also a perfectionist and usually like things dead on lol.

    20210310_172334.jpg 20210310_172359.jpg
     
  12. Logan Blankenship

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    @Rhett E I saw on another thread you mentioned adding a couple bolts to the bottom of your z axis to do some adjustments. Do you have any photos of what that looks like? I saw the two holes you mentioned but couldn't envision how the bolts worked in adjusting the z carriage.
     
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Is the uprights square to the Y rails? Back-to-front tramming is done by rotating the X axis along itself. Adjusting the router will straighten up the bit yes, but Z will then go up and down at an an angle, causing rubbing and dimensional issues as the bit doesn't move up and down perfectly perpendicular either
     
  14. Logan Blankenship

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    I made sure the uprights were square to the assembly when initially building the machine. I'm not sure of how to check for square now with
    Yeah it is a little difficult to get a square positioned after the machine is built but everything looked good to me.

    When placing a square on my table there would be gaps across one of the c beams. I originally noticed the bottom c beam wasn't fully up against one of thr uprights so I went back and retightened all the cast corners to pull it together. This fixed it on the ends but if I check with my square closer towards the center there are still gaps where the two c beams aren't on the exact vertical plane. This also seems to make my z axis assembly lean forward slightly by about a 1/16". I'm not sure how I could correct this since both ends connected to each upright read square to the table.

    Here's a few more pictures.
    20210308_220610.jpg
    20210311_083254.jpg
     
  15. JustinTime

    JustinTime Journeyman
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    Logan, that gap is not that important (unless it's a different gap along the beam). It's important that the gantry that moved along these two C-Beams is plum with the board on two sides. A small washer on the top screws or the bottom screws, that holds the wheels, will help with that squaring.
     
  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    His second pic shows the top beam further back than the bottom beam - so the Z itself is not perfectly upright.
    The method you suggest will make matters worse, it brings the endmill upright, but now its moving on an incline...
     
  17. Logan Blankenship

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    The gap is different along various points. Sometimes on the upper beam, sometimes the lower. However again, both beams are fully seated and tightened down to the uprights so I'm not sure what I could adjust to correct those beams.

    Currently my bit is taking more out in the front of the cut so it's leaning forward like this /. That's what I've found to be the case when using a square on my z assembly. Again, this was done referencing the table so I'm not sure if that's the most accurate way to gauge.

    Is it possible to loosen the cast corners on the z assembly and shim the lower portion with some aluminum foil to push the lower end forward slightly and level it out? I'm not sure what you mean by an incline.

    A few more shots of the gap across the X axis. 20210311_093922.jpg 20210311_093953.jpg
     
  18. JustinTime

    JustinTime Journeyman
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    You are correct which is why I had written in prentices 'unless it's a different gap along the beam' since that will indicate a twist in the beams, which Logan confirmed in his latest post. In this case my cure will, of course, not work and the reason to the twist has to be found.
     
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  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Exactly this @Logan Blankenship - they should be straight so gap should actually be kind of consistent (with the exception that the weight of the router may pull it forward on the top beam, back on the bottom beam because of How to calculate V-Slot® deflection

    Of course one important thing to note, is the bigger the machine, the bigger tolerance would still be considered great. You are milling big pieces so you shouldn't be able to achieve micron precision - but on a small machine like a minimill, the percentage of error considering the small workarea has to be several factors better (and is, because smaller machines are more rigid)
     
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  20. Logan Blankenship

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    Okay, I've gotten it to where I would consider it "close enough". However when I run the surface job using the wizard in openbuilds control. My cutting depth isn't correct. Since practicing I've taken a few skim passes so I home and zero my bit to the unsurfaced portion of the spoil board. When I press go to zero everything works fine, then I start the job and my controller says it's at -.16" but it's definitely not. I abort the job, and hit go to zero on the controller again and this time my z axis zero point is almost 1/8" higher than when I zeroed it the first time with my probe. Any help would be appreciated.
     
  21. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  22. Logan Blankenship

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    Here's my current settings in the wizard. Everything else is stock and I haven't adjusted with the machine.

    Also to point out, I can zero my Z with the probe and it is fine again, it seems to happen only when I'm running the job.

    UPDATE: I just created a new job using a 1/4" spiral bit instead of the 1" surfacing bit and it cut much deeper. It seems like the issue might be when taking the initial plunge with the surfacing bit. Since it works fine with my spiral bit, would updating any grbl settings impact this or should I take smaller passes with the surfacing bit?
     

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    #22 Logan Blankenship, Mar 12, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Surfacing bits are not all plunge capable - so yes, keep the depth shallow
     
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