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OpenBuilds LEAD CNC

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by MaryD, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    Measuring the flex while cutting is likely to be challenging, but when it's stationary you should be able to measure it at different loads with something similar to the fish scale test I mentioned to @sn4k3 a few posts back - clamp/screw some steel to the spoilboard to stick on a magnetic dial indicator stand, then indicate on various parts of the machine while tugging on other parts with a cheap fishing scale (to control/measure the amount of force that's causing the flex you'll see on the indicator). I imagine you should be able to get at least some idea of where the problem is coming from by comparing measurements from the middle of the gantry with measurements on the Y axis uprights.

    I agree, though, it would be great to see some sort of official test data - both for prospective buyers (although I don't recall seeing anything similar from other companies that they could compare it to), and for owners trying to determine whether something is a weakness in the design, or in their build of it.

    Methodical and I have a bit of a hot & cold relationship, so I'll just second the request for someone more capable to tackle the job.


    -Bats
    ( currently considering a methodical approach to testing endmills on someone from Seagate )
     
  2. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    I found your problem! :thumbsup:
     
  3. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    Exactly. And a Seagate shortly after warranty expiration, even. I'm actually not at all sure why I had a one in there in the first place - I usually avoid Seagate like the plague. Either it was a truly amazing sale, or I was really dying to try out an SSHD for some reason and WD wasn't making any yet.

    Considering I just found another Seagate SSHD in my pile-O-drives, I'm leaning towards "amazing sale". Unless they were replacements for other failed Seagates?


    -Bats
    ( friends don't let friends buy Seagate )
     
  4. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Thanks Bats. It’s nice and smooth, just had a little more resistance than my brain thought it should I suppose. I’m almost to the wiring portion, have to make a lowes run to pick up a few things that were missing in the kit. Nothing major, just a couple of screws and a set screw for one of the lock collars. Should have the mechanical portion finished up tonight. After putting together the E4 from Bob’s, I’m pretty impressed with this machine.
     
  5. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Moved, accidentally posted in OX subforum.

    Alright Bats, I’m lost. I’m to the wiring portion and realized that mark has the V3 in the video, and I’ve got the V4. I don’t have the slightest clue how to wire this thing up and don’t want to get it wrong. Is there a video or a write up on this controller? The diagram in the box doesn’t seem to match color wise to anything mark is doing on the V3 in the video. Attached is how I think the A motor is wired, but I’m not sure. Also, is this machine supposed to have feet? The nut on the L bracket for the drag chain digs into the table unless I flip the L bracket over. The machine in the video appears to sit above the table slightly, but I didn’t see a mention of feet. This thing is nice, but the instructions are about half a step up from going in blind.

    9188F308-374E-45FB-AEB5-A58E615E0AA6.jpeg
     
  6. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    Yeah, you feel that resistance and think "wait... is something wrong? I thought this whole contraption was supposed to work smoothly! Why's it so stiff?" After you tap nylon & delrin (and I'd imagine a lot of other similar materials that I haven't personally tried) it tends to spring back & close up on the threads, instead of staying where you put it, like a nice well behaved metal. It usually means that leadscrews are a real bear to twist through for a while, but it also makes for a whole lot less backlash than a similarly formed metal nut, so I figure it's worth the inconvenience.

    Hope your Lowe's is better about stocking metric than mine is. Actually, I hope your Lowe's is better about just about everything than mine.

    I'm constantly impressed by how much people are able to get away with using plywood machines, but, yeah... I'd much rather put together an OB kit.

    Unfortunately this is the point where my experience runs out. Not only do I have a V3 instead of the V4, mine still hasn't even been unwrapped, since I'm using the Gecko G540 from my previous machine. Hopefully someone with slightly more of a clue will jump in before I can do too much damage with my advice.

    The wiki at Spark-Concepts/xPro-V4 has at least a little more detail than the wiring diagrams on the parts store, and it looks like Spark Concepts also put up a build page for it on here, too - although I don't know how much overlap there is with the wiki: CNC xPRO V4 .

    I haven't seen much other discussion of the v4 around here yet, but I also haven't really been looking since deciding to stick with the Gecko.

    I have no idea how much the v3 & v4 differ, but I hope Mark won't be too offended if I say I strongly recommend following the wiring diagram any time the two disagree - just stick to using the video for mounting, wire routing, and making everything all pretty.

    When it comes to steppers, there are basically two accepted methods of identifying the right wires. One uses a multimeter to find the pairs of wires with the same resistance... and the other is to pretty much just just hook them up randomly, try it, and then swap them around until it works the way it's supposed to (powering everything down in between, naturally). Either way, the four-wire OB steppers make it pretty easy, compared to the six & eight wire ones I'd used before.

    This gives a brief summary of the two methods, and this is an archived copy of the dead link from the v4 wiki page, which goes into a little more detail.

    ...or you could be really clever and check the datasheet on the parts store page for the motors (which I didn't notice until just now):
    [​IMG]

    and combine it with the wiring diagram from the wiki and/or parts store:

    [​IMG]

    Going from the corner of the board, the A axis plug goes A1, A2, B2, B1 which I'm going to guess matches up with -A, A, B, -B (Yellow, Green, Red, Blue) on the stepper datasheet. If you try it and it turns the wrong direction, just swap yellow & green or red & blue and it should go the right way. Once you've got it working with one motor, it should be the same for all the rest. It's probably also possible to use software/firmware/jumper settings to change the direction, but I don't know enough about the board to be sure.

    Nope, no feet (aside from some recommended scraps of cardboard in one step). I only briefly started the wiring video (before realizing that mine would be entirely different and there wasn't much point in setting up the drag chains before I knew what was going in them), so I almost certainly don't know what I'm talking about here, but don't the L brackets go on the side of the long Y axis C-beams that're held above the table by the 20x40s?

    If nothing else, aluminum is nice soft stuff and you could always take a file (or even some sandpaper) to the brackets to take off the sharp edges or reshape them as needed... it seems awfully inelegant, though, which is a little out of character for the design and makes me suspect something isn't going together quite the way it should.

    I think I've probably said all I should on that particular topic... but, while it's not as nifty as the LEGO-riffic printable instruction manuals that exist for some of the other designs, there is a Sketchup model that you can use for reference..While I'm really not a fan of Sketchup, at least it's still free (or at least sort of mostly free. for the time being), and if you can find where they hid the download link for the desktop client, it's less frustrating than the web-based one.


    -Bats
    ( actually I think I've probably said an awful lot more than I should have on that particular topic )
     
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  7. Rob Mitchell

    Rob Mitchell Well-Known
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    @Dmhaes A couple of tips.

    1) For stepper wiring, to test which direction your steppers are turning be sure to avoid connecting the lead screw coupler to the motor shaft. This way you can test motor direction without worry about mis-direction especially with dual y-axis motors.

    2) No feet on the bed however to avoid the drag chain bracket from digging into the bed use the upper most end cap screw. This will give you another 10-20mm of spacing. This is what I did.

    3) I had the old V3 model, the V4 wiring should be the same. Don't worry about the order of the wiring connected to board connectors as long as you (a) make sure you have a pair that stops the motor from turning by fingers if you touch any two wires together and (b) follop tip #1 above.

    4) Once motors are connected and while following tip #1 you issue a move command to Z for instance another motor starts turning then simply swap that motor connector wiring... but I assume this was obvious.

    Don't worry, as long as you follow tip #1 you won't break anything. And if you hear the dreaded grinding sound from one of the motors it's probably because you have not identified the correct wire polarity pairs. In that case disconnect the motor and follow tip #3.

    Have fun.
     
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  8. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Thanks folks, that helps a ton. I’ll give it a go after work.
     
  9. Wip

    Wip New
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    Hello All,

    Just dropping in to subscribe to this thread, say "hello" and thank you for all the info (just finished reading all 8 pages).

    My LEAD arrived today and I'm very excited to build it and start making stuff.

    This will be my second CNC - please don't judge but I started with / learned on a Chinese "Zen Toolworks" clone...yeah, not even a 'real' Zen...it has a 12x16 work area, and I added a Gecko G540, and legit/paid copy of Mach3. The plan was to upgrade to a Sphinx and reuse the steppers, G540, etc. but ended up going all-in on the LEAD combo deal. The Pro V4 looks better than the G540 and playing around with the new OpenBuilds g-code sender...thinking I'll dump Mach3 as well.

    I've watched the build video twice now (at 1.5 to 2x speed) and feel pretty good about things...but definitely going to study Bat's notes/timestamps a couple more times before diving in...thinking they will make a little more sense with a beverage and the various kit parts in hand :)

    Keep the tips, tricks, advice, encouraging words coming,

    Thanks again to the community and Mark + rest of the OB Team!

    - Don (Wip)
     
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  10. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    Only 8 pages? Somehow it felt longer when it was happening...

    We've all gotta start somewhere. If it makes you feel any better, I this was where I started, after deciding against the Zen (and mine was also running through a Gecko, which is probably lost somewhere in that tangle of wires in back - it was definitely the nicest part of the machine, although I'm still partial to the antique galvanometer):
    TheContraption.jpg

    Nearly the same as my plan, except that I was leaning towards the Workbee... but I think you're the first I've ever heard say that about the xPro and G540. Keep us updated, though - I'm curious to hear from more people who've actually worked with both (I've got a V3 but haven't actually tried it out yet).

    The video will likely go better with a beverage. The notes might require several.


    -Bats
    ( possibly more than several )
     
  11. Wip

    Wip New
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    Quick question, should we be using “blue” Loctite on the bolts?

    I’ve built quite a few R.C. Helicopters and fly full-scale and have a healthy paranoia of bolts loosening up from vibrations. Thinking it’s ok not to use Loctite on the CNC but may be one of those “ounce of prevention” things?

    Speaking of bolts, checked my packing slips today and everything appears to be in order. Also checked all 118 tee-nuts in the main hardware bag and had one bad one....stole a single good one from one of the other bags (I think from the xPro bag).

    Looks like a decent snow storm is headed this way for the weekend, should be a good time for beverages and putting this thing together :)
     
  12. Wip

    Wip New
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    Bats,

    I can definitely appreciate your first cnc, looks great to me...bet it taught you many valuable lessons.

    I’m going to keep the G540 around...but the V4 board will be driving the LEAD initially at least for sure...would love to hook up the Bluetooth module and a few of the other options it supports.

    Also going to keep the Zen clone around...thinking it’d be great with a diode laser...
     
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  13. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Wanted to extend another thank you to everyone for the help, after a few head scratching moments, we’re up and running. Kudos to the Openbuilds team, this machine is top notch. On to figuring out the software end of things. Is anyone using f engrave or is fusion 360 the best free one?
     
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  14. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    If you are just starting out, dont forget to checkout Things you didn't Know about OpenBuilds Software
     
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  15. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Thanks! This is probably a dumb question but is there anywhere to add certain bits? Also how do I change the zero position to the center of my workpiece instead of the edge?
     
  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Center: Use the position tool (left side toolbar, looks like a ruler), Position tab, and type 0,0 into the Centers
    zerozero center.PNG

    Bits: Type diameter into Endmill Diameter field, its 2.5D only, so flat bottom assumed :)
    diameter.PNG
     
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  17. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    You rock, thanks!
     
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  18. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Also see Matt's introduction video tutorial

     
  19. Rob Mitchell

    Rob Mitchell Well-Known
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  20. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    I may have to give those some thought. Right now I'm in the process of mounting the switches that (like the majority of my electronics) were left over from the last build, but I was never very impressed by their repeatability and whenever they came off for one modification or another, it was always a question of when (or, eventually, if) I'd ever feel motivated enough to bother putting them back on.

    That being said, I do want limit switches on this machine (seeing as it's capable of doing a lot more damage to itself in a crash), taking inspiration from the Openbuilds versions, I figured making up some little aluminum mounting plates would be a good warmup before trying the bigger cut (a new set of aluminum spindle mounts, discussed at almost fairly excessive length over here). I'm pretty happy with the way this one came out - and that it only took two(ish) failures to get there.

    The surface finish (while pretty) leaves a lot to be desired, but with the spindle crookedly hung on temporary MDF mounts, that was expected.

    IMG_20190123_235604.jpg

    For anyone else experimenting with aluminum on a Lead, this was what worked for me:

    1/8" 2-Flute carbide endmill (Kyocera Tycom 1600.1250.500, via drillman1 on ebay)

    All toolpaths made with Autodesk Fusion 360 and run at 10k RPM, with feeds and speeds from G-Wizard
    Surfacing (2D Adaptive): .005" DOC, 33ipm (327 SFM, .00165 in/tooth chipload)
    Large Pocket (3D Pocket Clearing): .035" DOC
    Small Pockets (3D Pocket Clearing): .0125" DOC, 16ipm (327SFM, .0008 in/tooth chipload)
    Cutout (3D Adaptive): .045" DOC, 34ipm (327SFM, .0017in/tooth chipload)

    (Fusion's "Adaptive" toolpaths roughly equate to HSM or Trochoidal paths in other software, and the pockets were done with lots of shallow ramped passes with frequent retracts so I could get alcohol in and chips out)

    On any of the sections that made any sort of enclosed slottish cuts (both the holes and some of the exterior edges when it was being cut out) I used a syringe to keep them full of alcohol - although, while that was the only way I could avoid aluminum welding itself onto a 4-flute on previous attempts, it didn't seem nearly as necessary with the 2-flute & new feeds/speeds.

    I found it interesting that G-Wizard gave me higher spindle speeds and much lower chiploads than what I'd come up with from other sources, but it seemed to match up pretty closely with what I'd found previously working by feel from previous tests. I suspect the machine could also handle being pushed a fair bit harder, but given the temporary spindle mount situation, I'm trying to go easy on it.


    -Bats
    ( also interesting is that, while I have limit switches and limit switch mounting plates, I have absolutely no screws, T-nuts, or other hardware to connect them )
     
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  21. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Dumb question of the day for anyone familiar with V carve, which post processor am I supposed to select? Also curious if I have to use ugs or if I can just drop the g code from vectric into openbuilds control.
     
    #231 Dmhaes, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  22. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    I'm digging this out of the dustbin of history (ie, last week) because I never saw any replies and it's something I'd been wondering about too.

    I was planning to use it on mine, but then discovered that two different bottles were completely empty, the third wasn't even thread locker but sleeve retainer (it also wasn't even a bottle, but a tube... it was blue, though!), and the hardware store had closed early - all of which seemed like a pretty clear indication that there wouldn't be that much vibration... but I'm really curious to know what the official/authoritative/I've-logged-forty-thousand-hours-on-a-Lead-with-unlocked-threads view is on this.

    Are the vibrations not significant enough to loosen the bolts (I definitely like to tune my machines so they vibrate less than helicopters, but that's not saying much)? Does the combination of T-nuts & aluminum extrusion have enough flex to act like a spring washer when everything's tightened down? Or should we all be worried that our machines are planning to fall apart as soon as we turn our backs?


    -Bats
    ( o/~ it's blue da ba dee da ba doooooo.... o/~ )
     
  23. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Small victories. I used one of vectric free files, dropped the g code in open builds control, said a little prayer, and fired it up. Machine worked flawlessly, design came out just as intended. I know it’s not much to brag about but I had zero cnc knowledge at New Years when I ordered my Lead 1010. To be able to assemble it, and now figure out the software side of things a bit, all while not starting a house fire feels pretty good. This is literally the first job I’ve ever ran. 99DB2B15-9DBE-4803-B11F-3A056E7FB9D5.jpeg
     
  24. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    That probably depends on what you're using to run your machine (I used Aspire with a mildly tweaked version of their Mach2_3 Arcs_inch.pp, because I run mine with Mach3 and a Gecko G540). If you're using the xPro, I'm guessing you'd want the Grbl_inch.pp or Grbl_mm.pp, unless they've added something more appropriate in the 3-4 years since my version was last updated. I don't have any first-hand experience with it (or much of a clue about GRBL devices in general), so hopefully someone else will be able to chime in with some slightly less theoretical tips.

    You might also try searching and/or starting a thread in one of the software forums, since it's not an issue that's exclusive to the Lead & you might find a larger pool of people (using different machines, but the same electronics) who could help.


    -Bats
    ( "Grbl grbl!" - the call of the open source Hamburgler? )
     
  25. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Got it all figured out, I missed part of the v carve tutorial .
     
  26. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    That's nothing to sneeze at... This was my first job on my first machine:
    IMG_20151019_174245027.jpg
    Actually, I think that was at least my first half dozen jobs. I'm pretty sure the first involved that black line that shoots off at an angle into random squiggles on the right (mixed up axes, miswired motors, or swapping absolute vs relative moves in G-code - I don't remember quite what the problem was, but it was certainly unexpected)

    I think this was the first time I trusted it with a cutting tool:
    IMG_20151026_223125726.jpg

    So, I'd say you're off to a solid start.


    -Bats
    ( although you might not be sneezing at all if you were wearing a dust mask in all those thick clouds of MDF fluff *cough*sputter*choke* )
     
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  27. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Don't forget. It's not just the machine that has done an excellent job.
    It's you really. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
    May the Chips Fly for You :D:D:D
     
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  28. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    And the corollary:

    It's not you that made a complete and utter hash of the job.
    It's the machine. Really!


    -Bats
    ( shhh! don't tell my machines I said that! )
     
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  29. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    So. How many of us had to look up the word, "corollary"? :(
    Perhaps only me. But hey, you're never too old to learn new words. :thumbsup:
    I don't know if I could pronounce it out loud though. :jawdrop:
    Thank You :D
     
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  30. adt670456

    adt670456 New
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    Trying to figure out if I should continue with the purchase of the Nema 23 high torque motors from openbuilds which only have 345 oz. of torque when other Nema 23 high torques offer more torque for same amount of money. Curious if I should stay with openbuilds if so is it because of the machine being tested with those particular motors already and that is about max you should do for it or would going with more torque help when doing aluminum?

    Also I’ve been trying to figure out if it would be worth it later on to add a different spindle and what benefits could I gain. I’m limited to power so I would have to stay with a 110v but I’ve seen those vfd spindle kits and collets and wanted to know if there is any gain in what machine could do with that versus the Dewalt?

    And finally, would y’all recommend one of the tool touch plate probes for this machine? Not sure if it would be a good thing to add especially if you have different bits that would be used for a cut or just a easier quicker way of zeroing? If so which one would be good?

    Sorry about all the questions, still learning!
     

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