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OpenBuilds LEAD CNC

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by MaryD, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I don't know what the Lead has in the way of feet designed for it, but I've put 8 adjustable ones on mine. Each corner and then down the Y lengths.
    I don't trust the surface strength of the table I built for it, :rolleyes: so I thought I'd build in a reasonable amount of adjustment to make sure. :)
     
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  2. wojak

    wojak New
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    Yeah! I am not sick anymore :) So I was able to start with it, after 2 weeks in bed.

    Now I need to choose which spindle to buy.

    52366964_393393014770358_5246238982253051904_n.jpg 51782129_370324303747422_7034769342625480704_n.jpg
     
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  3. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Glad your feeling better brother the LEAD is Looking great wojak! :thumbsup:
     
    #273 Mark Carew, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  4. Rob Mitchell

    Rob Mitchell Well-Known
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    I'm about to install t tracks as well on my LEAD. Did you consider the depth of the track into the MDF and if it would get in the way of surfacing the spoilboard (MDF) over time? How many mm below the surface of the spoilboard did you recess your tracks?

    Finally, what was your approach to cutting the track slots in the MDF. Did you use the CNC or remove the spoilboard and do it manually with a router.

    Thanks,

    Rob
     
  5. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    I haven't gotten this far with mine yet (I'm still hung up on some frustrating and/or puzzling tramming issues), but one approach I'd seen to this was to inset the tracks into one sheet of MDF just below the surface, and then glue another on top to use as the actual spoilboard (either mount it in pieces between the tracks, or as a solid sheet and then CNC the slots - assuming your tracks are aligned closely enough to your axis). Then, when you've eventually (re)surfaced the board so many times it's getting close to the tracks, just drop a new top layer on & repeat. The obvious drawback is that the thicker you stack up your spoilboard, the less Z travel you get, and that's the one dimension the machine already feels a little cramped in..

    My preference would be to CNC the slots in situ, after the board is already mounted on the machine, since it would guarantee your tracks will be aligned to your X and/or Y axis. Obviously that alignment isn't essential, but I've found it often makes life easier - especially when you've got a toolpath that uses almost the entire available stock, or are using expensive materials and want to minimize waste. If you're able to line up one or two existing edges of the stock with your X & Y axes, you can sometimes get away with just taking a skim pass along those sides to clean up.


    -Bats
    (now that spoilboards are out of the way, can anyone give me a decent toolpath for making caffeine?)
     
  6. Wip

    Wip New
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    Is anyone else using the xPro v4 board, OpenBuilds "Control" software and the DeWalt 611 router?

    I'm having a frequent issue where the software just 'hangs'...no error codes...just hangs. All motion stops...no way to resume the job...and most often I have to disconnect and then reconnect and start the job over...sometimes I have to completely shut down everything.

    My only guess is I have a 'noisy' router and getting interference from that. Nobody in the Control software forum seems to have the 'hang' issue I'm experiencing so that leads me to think it's hardware related. Possibly the v4 xPro...but I'm assuming it's the router. I re-wired my limit switches and it still happens, I disabled my limit switches and it still happens, I run my shop-vac and it happens, I don't run my shop-vac and it happens. The only two things left are the board and the router. Unfortunately I can't duplicate the problem on demand either...it seems very random.

    I assembled my LEAD 'by the book' and don't have enough cable length to get my board further away from the machine to really isolate it...open to any suggestions on other ways to ground the board, isolate the board, isolate the router, other ideas on what might be causing the trouble?

    I really want to love the new setup but so far it's been kind of a nightmare and I don't trust it to do any real work yet.
     
  7. Trooper11040

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    So I am finally starting to use this machine to fulfill orders I have pending. Ive had nothing but issues this week...The biggest issue being these letters coming out looking awful...especially the "P" Everything is calibrated, used the Z probe to make sure Z zero was set properly. I am using a 60D Vbit from Whiteside...the same bit was used on my xcarve and it worked flawlessly...any ideas? I can't figure out what I am missing to get this machine dialed in...The one photo that shows a really messed up workpiece is bugging me too...went to run the Gcode, it got to the letters and the machine basically seized up...it appeared as if the X Gantry was trying to move but couldn't...it was bizarre. I am trying to work out the bugs, but its becoming a little disheartening. My Xcarve works flawless and has been my go to machine for over a year...I need this second machine to help with my production...Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!
     

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  8. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    I'm not precisely sure what it is that's coming out wrong about the P (or at least what you're focusing on in the two more ambiguous photos... the other's hard to miss), so take any advice I give with a grain of salt (allowing a tolerance of +/- 1Tbsp of salt).

    The rough, splintery cuts are the first thing that jumps out as obviously objectionable - although on my old machine I'd often call worse cuts than these "good enough" (and then I'd usually spend four times as long cleaning up the mess with sandpaper & hand tools). It's also something I saw a lot of - most often when I was using V-bits, and almost always as a result of the astronomical amount of runout on the Harbor Freight "spindle". Bad runout with an endmill will still sometimes produce an almost-mostly-tolerable cut (although the dimensions will be off), but runout using straight bits is ugly, and V-bits seem to be the worst - the tip ends up traveling in a circle instead of spinning on a point, and the cutting edges don't cut into the wood so much as bash and scrape against it, at all sorts of unpredictable angles. Sometimes it'll give decent results on one section of a toolpath and just tear the hell out of another, depending on how it's moving.

    It's not the only thing that caused results like that ("today is a day ending in 'Y'" was another frequent culprit, as was using no-brand bargain bin router bits), but it was definitely the most predictable. It's also easy to check for, if you put an indicator on the shank of the router bit and (manually - no power!) rotate the chuck.

    If the spindle was working fine on the X-Carve (you didn't mention whether it's the same one), then it's possible the bit's just not properly seated, that there's some sawdust or other crud throwing it off, or that the collet's damaged. Whiteside generally makes good tools, so it's probably not a crooked bit (although I've seen the little 1/8" import engraving bits ground at all sorts of strange & skewed angles before), but it wouldn't hurt to try swapping out if you've got a spare on hand.

    Also, in middle of the P it looks like there may be a bit of a bump or "dogbone" - although it's possible it's either intentional, or an artifact the lighting. If it is real and isn't deliberate... then I'm still not entirely sure what would cause it, but my first suspicion would be backlash in whatever axis is responsible for the horizontal lines. There shouldn't be too much backlash on one of these machines (at least when they're new), but you might want to check to make sure everything was assembled tightly and is still assembled tightly. The screws on my gantry endcaps worked themselves loose, and I ended up with almost .25" play in the gantry.

    Lemme guess: The axis would stop moving with a sudden jerk, the steppers made a sort of frustrated squealing sound, and the readouts on the PC were acting like everything was normal and moving as expected?

    If I'm right... then that'll be a first. But it'll also mean your steppers are stalling. Usually it's a sign that they need more power than they're getting to do whatever it is they're being told to do (midband resonance can also cause steppers to stall, but that's more complicated, makes my head hurt, and usually shows up at lower speeds). Upgrading the PSU might be an option (although that also depends on the limits of the controller/drivers, and you didn't mention what you're running) but the quickest fix is to just be a little gentler with the steppers. Try dialing down your acceleration and/or rapid speed (either or both should do the job, in different amounts), since it usually bites when the steppers are trying to hit too high a speed too quickly. Mechanical fixes are also possible (for either variety of stall, and potentially without sacrificing performance) using flywheels or dampers on the steppers, but that's likely to get a bit too fiddly when you're looking at a backlog of orders.

    Servo-based CNC systems use encoders to constantly monitor the actual position of the motors, but on stepper builds like these the computer relies on the motors always being where it last told them to go. When one or more steppers stall - or when they lose steps for any other reason - then the PC's idea of where everything is ends up, rather like a politician, entirely out of touch with where everything actually is, and the results tend to range anywhere from subtly unwanted overlapping lines to Catastrophic Structural Pretzelification. CSP is, of course, the technical term for what happens when two motors driving the same axis decide to do two different things & catastrophically pretzelify the structure of your gantry. Mach3 apparently treats slaved axes differently when it's homing than any other time, and decided to send my gantry in two different directions at high speed (I may still need to replace several deformed rails). When one side just stalls (it may not - both may stall together... at least some of the time), the results are obviously less dramatic, but can still potentially cause damage. Even if nothing's damaged, your gantry will be crooked until you manually realign it, which is easy to overlook until you suddenly discover that everything you've cut has been skewed because your X & Y aren't square.

    I'm thinking about adding a separate home/limit switch for each side of the gantry, so that when they get out of sync it's possible to have the PC realign them - I just haven't haven't sorted out the details yet, and didn't see much point with the embarrassingly low repeatability on the mechanical switches I'm using now.

    I hear ya. After a purely DIY build last time around, I went with a kit looking forward to something that "just worked"... only to find myself tripping over a lot of the old familiar problems again. And, of course, a fair selection of exciting new problems.

    Of course, if I wanted an out-of-the-box experience, maaaybe I should've stuck to building something more closely resembling the picture on the box.

    On the brighter side, I think I finally got my spindle straightish (at least within about .015°). The machine's still a little frustratingly out of tram (possibly CSP-related), but I think I'm going to leave it for now (partly because I'm having trouble getting test results repeatable within the margin I'm trying to adjust for, and partly because I'm tired and don't want to deal with repeatedly reassembling the gantry with shims). I still need to make a new spoilboard, install some more reliable limit switches, build a shielded case for the VFD & wire it up for software speed control, and I'm thinking about trying to swap Mach3 for LinuxCNC or Tormach's PathPilot. It also needs a new table, to be relocated to the other side of the shop, and might also get rebuilt at half again the width... but I think it might almost be at enough of a "good enough" point that I can call it done(ish) and set it aside while I try getting my mill cleaned up and assembled. Finally.


    -Bats
    ( now's the point where you tell me the real problem is that the 'P' was cut using the wrong font )
     
  9. Wip

    Wip New
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    Hi Trooper,

    What control board are you using?

    Are you using OpenBuilds CONTROL software?

    What software did you use to create the G-Code?

    I’ve been a pretty long-time lurker on OpenBuilds and definitely believe in these machines but I too have been having some trouble over the past weeks getting the LEAD running reliably.

    It’s my second CNC, first with dual drive Y axis and first with lead screws.

    Please keep us posted on how you solve your problems.
     
  10. Trooper11040

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    I am using the openbuilds v3 controller. I used both picsender and the openbuilds software to send the code, and use vcarve pro to create the gcode. My belt drive xcarve at the moment has been more reliable which isn’t good when the leadscrew should be more solid and precise
     
  11. TurfnSurf

    TurfnSurf New
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    So how long has OpenBuilds been using a 20/80 aluminum channel for the vertical connection on a moving gantry? When I did roughly the same thing, except, using a 40/80 C beam piece, I hadn't seen anyone do that before me.

    gantry.png vs gantry2.png
     
    #281 TurfnSurf, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  12. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    If you look back through the old CNC designs you'll find this is not a new concept. There are a number of examples over the years. The Routy which was pretty much the first design actually used 20x40 verticals.
     
  13. TurfnSurf

    TurfnSurf New
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    Okay, neat! Thanks for the info.
     
  14. Skip S.

    Skip S. New
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    **Solved**
    Thanks to a post that Bats made some time ago, I found the answers I needed.
    Now, to start planning the liberation of cash...

    So I've been comparing the LEAD 1010 to the other machines and I've noticed that the LEAD and the Workbee 1010 are essentially identical.
    What are the differences between the two, or is it just on paper? What justifies the initial 200 dollar difference?
     
    #284 Skip S., Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  15. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    So many things can cause this..
    1) looks like from the tear out that you are moving too fast and or to slow on the RPM
    2) wheels eccentrics might be too tight causing binding
    3) anti backlash nuts set to tight on the setscrew causing friction that the motors are not able to overcome
    4) driver current is set too low causing motors to stall
    5) set screws on the flex couplers are loose or not set on the flat and can rotate a little on the shaft under load, blue loctite and check this frequently
    cheers
    Gary
     
  16. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes New
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    Make sure the couplings on your motors are tight. If you want to send me the file I can try to run it and see if the problem goes away.
     
  17. Trooper11040

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    Loosened all the vwheels and reapplied the load on each one. Looks better but not perfect. Time to check other things on the machine
     

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  18. pek

    pek Journeyman
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    MaryD and Mark, I really like this one, happy to see it in your store!


    Could I reuse your pictures to share to my community on FB and Discord? Want to make a little push for this new machine!
     
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  19. wojak

    wojak New
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    Sure :) I am working on it so I can even send you more pictures later.

    Or maybe I will add my logo to it, would it be ok? You know, for research purposes :p
     
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  20. Trooper11040

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    What’s your email. I’ll send you the gcode
     
  21. Trooper11040

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    Gary,

    I’m using the V3 controller and the higher torque motors that were offered when I bought it...how would I check the driver current on that controller board? Also how could you fix the setscrew on the anti backlash? Isn’t the setscrew sandwiched in the XL plate and inaccessible?

    Dan
     
  22. pek

    pek Journeyman
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    Thanks :)

    I just need a "real" photo to add to the one from Openbuilds. You can add your logo no worry, this is just to give a little push to Openbuilds
     
  23. wojak

    wojak New
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    Feel free to use it, I dont have now time to play with logo ;)
     
  24. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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    Share away! Thanks.
     
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  25. adt670456

    adt670456 New
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    Just curious, is there a better way of getting the the load on the wheels using eccentric nuts. Meaning is there a way to say this is too much or not enough? I know there are a bunch of variables, but some might have more slip on a wheel than others or not enough. Of course if machine sounds like it’s having issues and your wheels are tight then yea maybe loosen them but then how much would be too little? Sorry those might be stupid questions but it just seems like there is no real good explanation or method of exactly how tight or loose they need to be. I’ve got one plate that I have messed with multiple times and just can’t find that sweet spot.
     
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  26. wojak

    wojak New
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    I think it is showed very good in the assembly video, however it is hard to me to find best position too.

    I've also strange noises on one of Y profiles. After I checked ACME screw, ends up it is not straight and for example I cannot move bearing from one side to another, it always stuck at ~20% of length and it is hard to move it in any direction later.
     
  27. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    There is a guide for setting the current somewhere... basically turn the current adjustment pot up (clockwise) until the movement is reliable but not so high that you thermal shutdown the board. You need good cooling fan blowing on the board to push it hard enough for the high torque motors, and even then honestly it won’t be enough to get what those motors are capable of.

    The setscrew May be very hard to get at, but if it’s too tight will cause issues. You want it to be just getting the slop out but not so tight as to cause more friction.
    Cheers
    Gary
     
  28. wojak

    wojak New
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    I've found most of a sources of annoying noises. Most of it was because of motor mounts, they start to vibrate. Also a little space on C beam actuator plates, so screw were jumping and knocking.
    So this weekend I am going to create such plates, to make mounting of motors little more rigid - idea came from WorkLead WorkLead, no wait, LeadBee, naw... WoodWorker
    However I do not have workbee plates, so I will create it from scratch. Plates do not have to be perfect, wholes may be bigger to allow adjustments, it only have to be straight and rigid enough. I think it will also helps to keep machine more square.

    [​IMG]
     
    #298 wojak, Feb 20, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  29. adt670456

    adt670456 New
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    Does anyone object to using wire ferrules? Was having some problems with bad connection on some motors and installed ferrules and no more problems. Just curious if anyone has made similar connections. Also, how are y’all with the v4 controller assembling to the case and are you having issues with the wires sticking out too much?
    Last question, any pros or cons to using a 3 wire fan to connect to board for the case cooling fan?
     
  30. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    Before you go ripping your X/Z apart to get at the anti-backlash nut, you should be able to get some idea of how tight it is (or at least whether it's too tight) by hand-turning the leadscrew with the motors off. The motors are a lot better at torquing the screws than your awkward, slippery, human fingers (I've had leadscrews almost completely locked up & not even noticed until I ended up trying to move them by hand), but if it turns freely - or at least if you don't have to fight to turn it - then it's a pretty good indication that neither the nut nor the eccentrics are too tight. If the stall regularly happens at the same position, you'll want to make sure you can hand-twist the axis through that position (it could be sticking on something, or hitting a damaged patch of the rail / rough patch on the screw).


    -Bats
    ( I'm good at finding excuses not to rip apart my machine to get at that %$#^% anti-backlash nut. I've had lots of practice. )
     

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