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Better spindle mount solutions?

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by lma, Oct 5, 2021.

  1. lma

    lma New
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    LEAD CNC + DeWalt 611 router. The spindle mount is thin and not very sturdy -- there is not a lot of vertical support between the mount and the gantry plate, and the router wobbles within the mount. On contact with material, the router kicks itself to the side, like a badly trammed spindle. Cuts are not straight, especially on entry and exit.

    Also having trouble with tramming, especially when surfacing. Even something as trivial as adjusting the dust shoe throws off the tram.

    Any solutions? Are there thicker mounts out there with more support?
    Tramming mounts that fit the C-beam gantry plate?
     
  2. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Easiest solution is just to add another mount bracket.

    Dual Mounts.JPG

    Shy of doing that though, keeping the extension distance of the router below the mount to a minimum (1" at most) helps. You might also try leaving the router's locking ring in place, tightened tightly down to the top of the mount to help stabilize the router.
     
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  3. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    A single router mount should be more than sufficient, what you are describing sounds like something wrong. Are you sure the front plate is tight? Didn't perhaps use screws slightly too long that bottom out in the hole before pulling the front plate tight?


    Ordinarilly the router is tight on the mount, mount is tight on the Z axis - all mostly self-aligned. You tram the frame, not the mount itself. If your Z uprights are off, the effect translates to a skew spindle. If your X rail is twisted, it translates as a router leaning backwards or forwards. To tram a machine, square up the frame components perfectly:

    It's all about finding which direction the router is tilted.

    Left to right = adjust the gantry up or down on one side of the vertical upright
    Forward to back = the uprights are not perpendicular to the Y rails or the X-rail is rotated

    • Your two Y rails should make a perfectly flat plane
    • Your X gantry rails should be perfectly parallel to this imaginary plane
    • And your Z axis should be perfect perpendicular to the plane in all directions.
     
  4. lma

    lma New
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    I just ordered an extra bracket to try that! But, my router broke right after, so I might actually look into other routers and mounting options, since the DeWalt router feels a little underpowered and heats up quickly.
     
  5. lma

    lma New
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    I think I've tightened all the screws to the point the hex sockets could almost strip, and spent a day tramming the gantry and the z-axis mounts, making sure the the mount is perfectly square when screwed in. The forward-back and the left-right is almost perfectly trammed, so the z-axis is almost perfectly perpendicular (<0.5 degrees off), when no weight is on it.

    Tramming was probably not the right word to use -- the squareness of the router is affected and noticeable when I am surfacing the spoilboard. Pushing down on the dust shoe while it is surfacing causes the surfacing bit to dig into the spoilboard at an angle, milling a noticeable groove. That was my initial concern about the router mount's stability.

    The bigger problem is, when the tool contacts the material wooden material, fixed to the frame), the rotation of the bit kicks the bit one side, which tilts the router while it is in the material. It rights itself when it is no longer cutting the material. It is not due to slop along the x-axis, the router tilt is changing upon material entry and exit, because I can see the cut angled at the entry and exit.

    I think Rick 2.0's solution might be a good solution to both problems above.

    Wondering if a thicker spindle mount, perhaps one with tramming set screws would be in your agenda for a future product? Relying on all joints to be perfectly square, especially when there is a bit of slack in almost every joint, feels a little on the nose. It's possible, since the machine is not too big, but e.g. going back to fix squareness between the vertical Y-axis gantry beams and the C-beams involves taking apart a lot of things.
     

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  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Or, you are seeing Deflection in the X-rail: How to calculate V-Slot® deflection - addressed by the dual rails of the High-Z mod/LEAD1515 for heavier loads.
    Though well within acceptable tolerance on single-rail machines with the correct cutting recipes.


    Should not happen, thus my suspicion that


    Indicates the screws are bottoming out in the threaded holes, before you have a grip on the router. It doesn't take much to hold the router tight - take the router out, see where the screws bottom out. Can always shorten them a bit

    Indeed, but - there is an argument to the fact that 99.9% of users do not fit a second mount. Something is loose. Find that first. If it was by design flaky, you'd know we'd have changed it, or you'd see double mounts on all the Builds on the Builds tab (;

    Keep in mind the mount is perfectly perpendicular to the Z axis already in one direction (perfecly milled edge, tight against plate), and slight adjustment side to side by way of oversided screw holes - if you are off - the tramming is almost always in the frame (as mentioned above) - fixing it by shimming the router mount to correct, does nothing to address (for example) a tilted Z axis itself, caused by mounting one side of the gantry a bit too high or low compared to the other side. You direction of motion is still off angle, despite shimming the mount. Look at the dependency stack, and its more likely somewhere else than router mount itself if you do have tramming issues.

    That said, your symptoms are not tramming related. A single mount should hold the router just fine. I think your bolts holding the front plate on is a bit long and bottoming out before they have a grip on the router.
     
  7. lma

    lma New
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    Thanks for all the answers! I might look into the dual rail
     
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