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Which router spindle?

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Wylie, Aug 15, 2016.

  1. Wylie

    Wylie New
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    Hi everyone,
    Can anyone help decide on which router spindle works best on a CNC build.
    I'm not sure which make and model router would work best on any CNC router build, can anyone who as already done a build recommend one.
    As anyone found a router that as a ER type collet, or as anyone made the conversion of there router to use the ER type collet.
    Thanks in advance for any help.
    Steve
     
  2. EvanBruner

    EvanBruner Well-Known
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    If you don't want to cut aluminum at deep cuts, you don't really need anything above a .8kw(mayyybbe a 1.5kw) spindle or 1-.25 hp routers. Especially when cutting aluminum, you're machine will deflect like crazy before you get clost to maxing out your spindle power.

    It is possible to adapt a router to an ER collet system, but it can be prohibitivly expensive for a low runout solution. You can get a cheap chinese adapter that has a 1/2" shank on it for about $30 but I wouldn't expect it to have less than at least a thou of runout. Add in the runout of the 1/2" collet you'll need to use it and you've got a bad solution. I would ask ymilord how his worked out, his build can be found by searching 'the hog'. PreciseBits sells an ER20 adapter that has virtually no runout but it costs over $250 dollars.

    My suggestion for anyone without a very rigid machine and a low budget is the Makita RT0701C because it is absolutely tiny, has a much wider rpm range than popular choices like the Dewalt 611 and still has the same 1.25 hp power rating as its bigger competition. Get 3 precision collets from either Elaire or Precisebits in the sizes you will most likely use and stick with those sizes. This is going to be the best option for the least amount of money in my opinion. I bought a Hitachi M12vc because of it's low noise and low RPM rating, but if I could rebuy I would go with the Makita.


    If you can afford a nicer machine and have the rigidity to support a heftier spindle, get a watercooled spindle with a VFD in the biggest size you can supply the power for. The difference in price between the different power rating is almost negligible. The limiting factor in which spindle you can go for is the weight of the spindle and what kind of power you can supply to it. If you're on 110v, you can really only get a 1.5kw spindle, I would kill to have the 2.2kw spindle but as I'm in an apartment garage (that I don't think im supposed to be machining in) and can't wire in 220v I won't be able to run it without tripping the breaker. Being able to run a 1/2 shank fly cutter at 500 rpm would be amazing for surfacing aluminum.

    I've probably thrown a ton of info at you, but it's hard to give a good recommendation without knowing what your expectations from the machine are. Let me know if you have any questions
     
  3. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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    I love my Makita! It is so quiet. I have it turned down as low as it will go while cutting wood and it just hums. Now if only the shopvac wasn't so noisy. The only bad part was that I had no 3d printer to make a mount so I had to order a Chinese 65mm mount. But, it is nice and square and was the exact width of my custom x-gantry plate (lucky me). I got this one 12-20 dayts free shipping) and it actually got to me within the 12 days, but I am on the west coast, so that may have helped. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/65mm-clamps-Spindle-Clamp-Electric-Motor-Mount-Bracket-Cast-[​IMG] Aluminium-For-CNC-Engraving-Machine-LG078/32617763908.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.88.LngF1F
     
  4. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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    Oh, and I bought the Elaire collet set, too. They seem to work very well. Elaire Corporation
     
  5. Wylie

    Wylie New
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    Hi Guys,
    Thanks for all the helpful comments on spindle types.
    I would love to be able to cut aluminum at times, but think I will mainly be cutting wood and maybe plastic.
    Thanks again.
    Steve
     
  6. EvanBruner

    EvanBruner Well-Known
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    You'll be fine with a .8kw spindle but the 1.5kw spindle is only a little more expensive and can hold a 3/8" bit. Any 1.25 hp router will do well too.
     
  7. Wind

    Wind New
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    This thread is old as hell but if anyone comes across it you can use 220v spindles in any apartment or house by buying or making a dryer plug splitter and 220v extension cord . The only downside is you can't use your cnc and dryer at the same time or the fuse will blow . You can also generate 220v power buy using two plugs in separate outlets on separate breakers , if you wire the cords using a proper box , clamps ,cover and socket you can use each circuit as a 110v leg , when joined correctly you will get what is equal to a 220v single pole breaker using 2 circuits.
     
  8. Wallied

    Wallied New
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    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but the aforementioned connections pretty much guarantee that in case of a fire, your insurance claim would be denied. Also, there's little point in getting a 220V version, if you are running 110V in your house. But you're correct in that you could run it like that.

    And to touch on the spindles with some personal experiences, I've been running a watercooled 1.5kW, 24k rpm one for a couple years now on my Workbee 750x1000 (30"x40"). I've run wood materials ranging from plywood and MDF to hard maple and rosewood, plastics from foams to plexiglass and delrin, and aluminum and brass. Cut depths have ranged from about 4 thou finish facing on brass to 2" in maple (a mistake with my code) and nothing thus far has made the spindle struggle, unlike the machine frame, which quickly becomes the limiting factor with brass. Speed-wise I mainly tend to aim for the 12k or 18k range, but often use the full 24k as well. The watercooled spindle stays cooler than an aircooled one, but even it starts to quickly get warmer if you drop the speed down to the 6k-8k range. Also soundwise I avoid the lowest speeds as I suspect I actually could get it to stall on those speeds with too aggressive a cut. But success lies in the feeds and speeds.

    I'd suggest getting the lightest spindle, that supports the tools you have. For me that meant going for the 1.5kW, as it supports up to 10mm or 3/8" shanks. 1/2" would be nice, but would neccessiate a heavier spindle, and the 1.5kw already creeps on the limits of the gantry's stiffness (mine has steel rods to fill the c-beam cavities)

    And I'm personally running mine on a separate circuit from the mains that runs the steppers. When building, I calculated that the combined amperage might be enough to pop the mains fuse.

    Sorry if I ended up blabbering :D
     
    Giarc, JustinTime and Rick 2.0 like this.
  9. ljvb

    ljvb Well-Known
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    T Yes you can use your Dryer plug, I do, I made an extension cord, nothing wrong with that as it is a double pole breaker, it just has a specific plug, no different than any other 220v circuit would be.

    However, the other suggestion is a fire waiting to happen. If you did that, you would have to make sure that each plug is on a separate leg of your incoming supply, just being on separate circuits won't necessarily work. This is why when you look at your breaker panel, specifically the double pole breakers (and if you removed all the breakers), you would note that the bus bar alternates each breaker to separate legs of the two lives coming into your house. Then there is the issue of the 2 neutrals you would have to tie togethor, which would energize other devices that may share that same breaker. And lastly, 220 in the US works by returning the feed from the circuit over the 110v leg that is on the negative side of the sine wave, it is why many 220V appliances have just 2 lives and a ground, and no neutral.
     
    #9 ljvb, Jul 12, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2021
  10. JustinTime

    JustinTime Journeyman
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    A dryer plug is connected to a 30A breaker. If the wires you use that are connected to the plug are meant for 15A you have a safety/fire hazzard.
    If all the neutral wires are connected correctly and together this will never happen. It will only happen if the neutral wire going to the panel is not connected in the panel
    That is done by having a spool/coil connected to 220V. Exactly in the middle of the spool a wire is connected. Measuring between this wire and any end of the spool will show 110V.
    BTW, that middle wire is connected to the ground/earth at the transforme station.
     
  11. ljvb

    ljvb Well-Known
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    Not quite, the wire gauge needs to be sized for the device/appliance, if all you are running is a 220V 60W light bulb, you are only pulling 0.2A, you can safely use a 22 gauge wire. Regardless, my extension cord was sized correctly.

    Depends on how the shop/house is wired. The problem is that code requires that when using a multiwire circuit, think when they used 3 wire for 2 separate branch circuits sharing the same neutral, both breakers are required to trip in the event of a failure, this is why those circuits typically use a single double pole breaker. It is not possible to gaurentee that both breakers will trip when using two separate circuits with dedicated neutrals. This may also destroy the tool and cause a fire if one circuit trips and the other does not for a split second, resulting in an inrush of current across the remaining circuit.

    Neutrals are generally tied in at the panel, you can share a neutral if all the devices are on the same circuit, but not on separate circuits, because if you share them, and like the example above, only one of the circuits trip, the neutral on the tripped circuit will remain energized, this is not only a fire hazard, but dangerous to whomever may be called (or to the owner) when they go to work on the circuits.
     

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