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VCarve Problem - C-Beam XL - Please Help

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by SBLabs, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    Hi all,
    Thanks for taking the time to look this over and sorry for the novel. I am having some V-Carve issues and I'm beyond frustrated at this point after significant troubleshooting.

    Background on my machine:
    C-Beam XL
    MKS Sbase v1.3 contoller with smoothieware
    Aspire/V Carve Software latest version
    Dewalt 611 Router
    Z height set with probe
    Cuts done as V-Carves on this issue.

    Here's a picture of the issue I am dealing with. The board is oriented the same way it would be as if it was sitting on the machine with you in front of it. I am hoping someone has seen this before.
    2018-07-20 09.20.29.jpg

    So you can see the top part of the N is leaving that part sticking out. Each N was cut with different settings.

    First photo was cut with a whiteside 1541 1/4" 60º V Bit

    So here is what I tried to fix the issue first:
    • Verified V Wheels were all making contact and no abnormal play or slop
    • Tried a new whiteside 1/4" 60º V Bit
    • Tried various bit angles in aspire
    • Tried different speeds & feeds down to painfully slow
    • Cut as text and converted to curves
    • Adjust Depth of Cut down to .5mm per pass with same result
    • Adjusted acceleration in smoothie config to lower numbers than anything I've used before
    • Adjusted junction deviation
    • Trammed router to within .01inch
    • New spoilboard planed
    • Tried changing stepover and final pass stepover
    • Different materials tried
    • Different letters (N and O were most vivid
    • Verified depth of cut is accurate to within .02mm when using Z probe
    • Verified X/Y axis movements are accurate to within .02mm
    So then I tried using a wider V-bit. This time a freud 1/2" x 60º. The results weren't good but are almost the opposite as before. Those same sections are being cut too deep instead of leaving too much material. See photo:
    2018-07-23 09.59.25.jpg

    As you can see I have exhausted many things and haven't had much luck. I'm not sure if I should be ripping the whole machine apart and rebuilding each axis again, digging deeper into the control board being the culprit, or looking more into the software settings. I am open to any suggestion at this point.

    If you've read to this point, thank you for your time and any suggestion at this point is not a dumb one.
     
  2. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Hi SBLabs
    An interesting problem you have there. Can I ask you to supply some pictures taken from an angle that would show the error of depth, or lack of it, a little better. Also, could you supply some pictures of your toolpaths and any other shots you may think could be useful. A video of the error happening from the toolpath point of view, and the cutter, may be helpful.
    I don't feel it is a mechanical thing, simply because it is happening to just this one area of the character, and as you show, the same fault is happening at various points of the work area, throughout the program set. I would be much more inclined to look for errors in the program, particularly the toolpaths. Confirm that the demands you are making with regards to the desired cuts, are able to be carried out by the program, i.e. the correct size of bit for the size of cut or similar.
    What happens with other jobs you set? Does it happen on just this character and configuration? Can you get it to cut the Letter "N" in a different typeface, and it works okay?
    I hope this is not stating the obvious, and that it may help in some regard, but I'm sure we can come up with an answer, one way or another. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Cheers
    Gray
     
  3. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    Gray,
    Thanks for jumping in the rabbit hole with me o_O. Nothing is stating the obvious at this point I'm grasping and willing to try anything.

    Some additional notes:
    Whenever running less shallow V-Carves the issue is not as apparent.
    Here are some additional photos. You can see I cut the N in both directions and it looks like it does about the same either way the N is positioned. I've included some pictures of the sign I originally cut when I first found this problem. You can see the less shallow words appear to be fine.

    2018-07-24 07.42.32.jpg 2018-07-24 07.43.00.jpg 2018-07-24 07.43.28.jpg 2018-05-16 18.18.32-1.jpg 2018-05-16 18.20.59.jpg 2018-05-16 18.23.43.jpg

    When this happens it appears to be on the finishing toolpath. Here's a link to the v carve file of my most recent round of testing (Dropbox - testing file two.crv).

    I will get a video and also try a different typeface the same size later today.

    Thanks again!
     
  4. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    Alright I am back, sorry for the delay. Non-fun work has been consuming my time.

    I tried two new fonts and seem to be having the same issue.

    I took three videos. Two on the new fonts with the 1/2" bit where it is cutting too much away and one with the 1/4" bit where its leaving the extra etc. as it's easier to see when it happens with this bit.

    First video - new font type using the 1/2" bit. while these letters overall look better, the issue is still there.
    Dropbox - 2018-07-26 07.57.46-2.mov
    Photo of final cut from first video
    2018-07-27 08.28.52.jpg


    Second video - another new font type using the 1/2" bit. Same results as video 1.
    Dropbox - 2018-07-26 07.57.46-1.mov

    Photo of final cut from second video
    2018-07-27 08.28.21.jpg

    Third video - 1/4" bit on original font type to show the issue in detail.
    Dropbox - 2018-07-27 08.43.24.mov

    Photo of final cut from third video.
    2018-07-27 09.18.15.jpg

    I apologize for any shaky video. I had to use the dropbox links because the files are too big for upload.

    I'm hoping someone has some more ideas of things to try to fix this.
     
  5. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    You really should be able to see the problem in the schematic of the tool path as it is cutting. It's just a shot in the dark, but I would hazard a guess the machine is doing its best with a slightly oversized bit for the work you want it to do, particularly in those corner areas. Plus I think the feed into, and out of, the cut is not quite right. Likewise, the step over could be causing a problem in those tight areas as well. Set up a tool change once the bulk is cut, and then fit a much smaller bit and see if that helps with the finer finish details like the corners.
    Sorry I can't come up with anything positive.
     
  6. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    maybe tell v-carve u using a bigger bit then you actually use. :)
     
  7. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    wondering, what does the simulation says in v-carve ?
     
  8. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    check your Leads tab (uncheck or all 0), in the video's you see it goes in little out of the line.
    (very strange that it happens only on the last finishing toolpath)
     
  9. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    I can try messing with the bit diameter size and see if maybe I can dial it in that way. The simulations do not show anything different or off in these areas. There is no leads tab on the V Carve toolpaths. I'm going to have a friend with an older version of the software process a file out for me to see if it still happens that way. I think I'm getting pretty close to breaking the whole machine down and rebuilding everything.
     
  10. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    I would think the angle is off, maybe tell the software it'a 59.5deg or 60.5 and see which is better, dial it in with angle.
    Diameter has almost no effect on v-carving, except how deep you can go.
     
  11. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    I had done some initial tests on the angles and didn't see anything off. After all the things above I ran a test file with the bit angles and as you can see the issue is present on every different angle. I didn't thing diameter would change anything either but figured it was something else to try and check off the list. I will try the older version of v carve software files tomorrow in addition to some of the bit diameter changes. I am also going to run some old files I know I had success with in the past to see if maybe something is off mechanically. While everything seems tight, maybe there is something tweaked or loose that I am missing.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Have you tried Vectric themselves?
    Vectric Forum • Index page
    They seem to have a pretty active Forum there.
    If anyone would know if it is a V-Carve problem, they would.
     
  13. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    Wow I like that test you did, is it just the pic or does 62 look the best?
    Either way when I do my v-carving I get some similar results I think it’s backlash and or deflection doing most of it. I’m my case at least.
    Gary
     
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  14. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    slower your speed drastically. As Gary C pointed D-Flection (makes sense, cuts more(has time) where the machine stand still)
     
  15. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    Hi guys, sorry for my delay. I started tearing into things a bit more after some more failed tests. When everything was connected there was no play or visible backlash anywhere that I could see or feel. But I do think backlash may be the cause of this. I found an issue with one of my Y linear actuators. It wasn't really noticeable until I looked close and I could see that the stepper coupler was twisted. When I removed this and move the screw manually there is a 1/4" or more of backlash. I'm not 100% certain this is my problem, but I will have to repair before diagnosing further.

    2018-07-30 10.05.25.jpg 2018-07-30 10.05.32.jpg

    This was the result of a bad crash from not having limit switches. These have also been ordered and will be added before I run anything else.
    It may be a week or so before I'm back up and running. I will update everyone once I have it running again to see if this was the root cause.

    Thank you everyone for their feedback.
     
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  16. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    Thanks, I can't take credit for it. I was directed to this video for help on bit angles. I think 61 looked the best close up. I will for sure be running these tests on every V bit and marking them accordingly. If you see my prior post, I do believe backlash is my cause and I will hopefully have this resolved soon.
     
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  17. SBLabs

    SBLabs Veteran
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    Alright I'm back. I think that my issue is resolved to the best it is going to get. Here are some photos of the before and after repairing the Y axis.

    Another tidbit I found to really help quiet the machine was to wrap the outside of the bearings with teflon tape before putting them into the end blocks on each axis. I just have to run a new spoil board and I'll be good to go. I think I'll get those limit switches hooked up right away so this doesn't happen again.

    Thanks everyone for their help on this issue.
    Before
    2018-08-02 10.23.41.jpg
    After
    2018-08-02 10.23.52.jpg

    Cheers!
     
    HC.Carbo likes this.

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