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V-slot and wheels load specs

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Artem Kuchin, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Artem Kuchin

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    Hello!

    I cannot find any load rating information for the wheels and for the extrusion. I need to understand how much load (basically weight or tightening i can put on the wheels before they start to deform or v slot in the extrusion will start to fall inside. And by "start" i mean some unrecoverable change in geometry.

    Also, need to understand the longevity of wheels and extrusions under certain load.
     
  2. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    These are hobby grade parts designed for light hobby grade loads, nothing more. Data at the level you seek does not exist.
     
  3. Artem Kuchin

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    Maybe some experimental data? Just for reference.
     
  4. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team
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    It might be better if you tell us what you have in mind, and perhaps we could then advise. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Artem Kuchin

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    I'll try. I want to build an universal machine for my home usage. 3D printer, light cnc, UV and hot laser, plotter, etc. The tool which can be installed might weight as much as 3KG. The X axis size is about 50cm. It is corexy mechanics. So, pretty heavy X axis rides on two Y axis. I am choosing between MGN12 rails and V-slot solution. V slot is cheaper and kind of easier to work with. More versatile. But i need to make sure that everything can handle the weight and speeds in long term. 20x40 beam (verticallly installed) should give me about 0.02m deflection. Which is more than enough.
    My concern are the wheel and v-slot itselt. How long delrin wheel will last? Should i got with the polycarbonate wheel instead? How long will they last? How v-slot itself will hold up with such load?
    Also, dust/debris protection is a my concern. Probably should put a small brushes on sides to clean v-slot before wheels and cover everything with some fabric.
     
  6. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team
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    You need to have a look at the many, many "Builds" we have on the Forum. :)
    Also do searches for the individual concerns you have. :rolleyes:
    I'm pretty sure you will find all the answers, and something which will do the job, on here. :thumbsup:
     
  7. Artem Kuchin

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    aha, i see many projects, but nobody likes numbers, but i guess i can ask how things go after, say, 2 years
     
  8. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    All in one machines generally require a number of compromises but overall this seems a workable concept. When you say light CNC, I'm assuming you are referring to acrylic and very low density wood. Not sure why you will need a 3kg router for that. The problem with the router weight is that the weight hangs considerably out from the face of the gantry causing the beam to twist. A 20x40 won't even begin to provide sufficient stiffness. I would recommend something far more substantial, probably on the order of a double 20x60. This size has worked well for the Ox systems with a 500mm gantry.

    Mainly you need to start getting a design together and putting it forth for opinions. As far as wheels, I strongly recommend the polycarbonate ones.
     
  9. Artem Kuchin

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    3KG is exactly to avoid twist :) I am planning to use some counter weight to fight twisting momentum when using heavier tools. For 3d/laser/plotter it is not a problem but CNC tool and power drill (basically light head drill powered from mains) it is.
     
    #9 Artem Kuchin, Feb 1, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  10. Kevon Ritter

    Kevon Ritter Master
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    The idea of using a corexy seemingly got over looked. Do you plan on using regular GT3 belts? If so, you're going to have a really bad time.
     
  11. Artem Kuchin

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    planned to use GT2 belts. Why is it bad?
     
  12. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    For all in one, yes, gt2 will slip on the pulley under milling loads. Jack of all trades, master of none, comes to mind. I have yet to see a successful all-in-one: speed/torque requirements differ so much between the three machine types. Make it fast enough to raster laser, and likely it will be a horrible mill (lasers: fast needs belts, light weight. Mills need strong and slow. )
     
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  13. Artem Kuchin

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    Probably depends on what to mill and speed of milling. I can go very slow :) Cannot have best of both worlds. But probably can have good 3d printer/laser and very very slow milling machine. Also, skipping probably can be avoided by adding smooth idlers around pulley.
     
  14. Kevon Ritter

    Kevon Ritter Master
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    Building fundamentally opposite machines will compromise both. You'll end up with a machine that can't effectively perform either function. Just build one really good router or printer. You can attach a laser to either, but large images would be too time consuming for a router, while a printer may have a limited area. Again, it's another compromise. Even the software between a good printer and a good router are different.

    Skipping is only one possible source of error under routing/milling loads. Belt stretch can be another factor. That only becomes exaggerated on something with four times the belt length as the average belt driven router/mill. Even accelerating without load may become a concern in this case.

    EDIT:
    There's not much worse in this hobby than having a machine you can't use or get stressed out when you do try to use it. I'm saying this from personal experience.
     
    #14 Kevon Ritter, Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  15. Artem Kuchin

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    Okay, then what if i switch to prusa type machine? Belt are a lot shorter. Maybe even used double belts.
     
  16. Kevon Ritter

    Kevon Ritter Master
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  17. Artem Kuchin

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    Which makes it a better printer :) Good enough. I'll think about it.
     
  18. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    :) take the advice of those whose been around this block. A change of mindset would just benefit you. Build three proper machines, instead of one unusable one. Slow milling is a lie popularized by a certain group of useless machines. Its a fallacy, slow feeds doesnt solve rigidity, chiploads, vibration and all the other problematic things a mill load introduces.
     
  19. Artem Kuchin

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    I see. Thank you for the advice. Problem is that i am doing it for myself and i just don't have space/place for tree proper machines. Nor budget, actually. I guess only experiments will teach me how to not do it :)
     
  20. Kevon Ritter

    Kevon Ritter Master
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    It doesn't actually. This may be an exaggeration, but what would normally be a 4 hour print may now take 8 hours, which doubles the chance of a failure. If you make the bed stiff enough to be of use for router/mill work, the bed would be carrying too much mass, and would require you to reduce your print speed.

    If you build even a basic router/mill, you can always use that to expand the collection. Or you can build a printer first and use that to expand. The main cost would be in separate electronics, which does suck, but they aren't entirely universal anyway.
     
  21. Artem Kuchin

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    What about extra motors? extrusion? wheels? rails? tons of money
     
  22. Kevon Ritter

    Kevon Ritter Master
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    You can build a printer or laser for less than $100 worth of hardware. Because they are light load purposed, smaller 2020 and 2040 is way more than enough. You don't need a ton of wheels either.

    I did say that the cost is mostly in the electronics. Motors are part of the electronics.

    As for the "tons of money" part, we're already being frugal building our own stuff. Equivalent machines are two and three times as much, Looking at it from a relative perspective, if you were going to get into any of it, you're still coming out on top, provided you conduct the proper research to do it properly. A failed project is the definition of a waste of money. You get knowledge which is definitely a positive, but you seem to be focused on the dollar amount more than anything else right about now.
     

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