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Table Saw Fence

Discussion in 'Other Builds' started by Don Crawford, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    Don Crawford published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
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  2. crazerico

    crazerico Well-Known
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    looking forward to this
    i already made a miter attachment to mine making cuts up to 32 inches .. helps alot
     
  3. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    I am debating whether the gantry should be horizontal with a brake in the same plane as the wheels or vertical screwing in through the gantry plate. I will make a picture.
     
  4. crazerico

    crazerico Well-Known
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    keep us update this will blow out a pro 40 vega fence
    And talking about fence
    this oen is nice but the price is not
    TS-LS Table Saw Fence, 52" Range, Incra LS52-TS-XL
    but i might consider building one from Vslots which would be more rigid
     
  5. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    So I am thinking either of these. These are just quickly thrown together, those handles are not to scale they are just models I found. There are three bolts to attach the rail to the table so I cannot do the vertical rail

    upload_2017-2-28_19-25-31.png

    upload_2017-2-28_19-25-51.png
     
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  6. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    Its design phase. I am not building yet.
     
  7. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    For cost sake, I think it is best to stick with a brake like this.

    upload_2017-2-28_22-8-12.png
     
  8. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    A TR8*8 screw through a nut block won't have sufficient holding power to be of any value. You really need a clamp of some sort. The one you have shown, modified with a good rubber bumper is probably the best approach.

    One option I have been looking into is adapting Titanium Skewer Drum Bicycle Quick Release Hole Hub Carrrier Rack Install LO | eBay. I haven't gotten very far with this because I only received them yesterday but as it turns out the threaded rod is M5x0.8 so it is easily removed and regular screws can be threaded into the cam clamp head which can in turn pull against the inside of the V-slot channel as a locking method.
     
  9. TrishC

    TrishC OpenBuilds Team
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    Hey Don. Nice looking design! We hope to add a break to the Part Store in the future. If you or Rick find the type you like, please reach out to us at [email protected] with the details.
    Thanks
     
  10. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Welcome to the forum @TrishC. :thumbsup: (It's about time you joined us.)

    The rubber bumper upgrade I was referring to can be found at Toggle Clamp Upgrade although the ones he selected may be a bit big for your use.
     
  11. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    Let me know how that bicycle hub goes because that seems to be cheap strong and other than a bit long, perfect
     
  12. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Worked like a charm. Removed the bicycle bolt and threaded in an M8x35.

    IMG_0254.JPG

    Sawed off the bolt head and added back the original shoulder washer and then added a rubber washer and finally a tee-nut.

    IMG_0258.JPG

    The rubber washer helps soften the grip on the extrusion and increases the acceptable grip range. Without it there is enough force in these clamps to deform the inside edge of the extrusion.

    Here is the final assembly. I got them as a better alternative to the adjustable lever clamps used in Adjustable Router Guide Template.

    IMG_0264.JPG

    Note: the exposed stud was trimmed to a length of 17mm below the cam lever handle (based on it being at the 90°, locked position). This appears to be just about right for passing through an 1/8th inch plate and into the tee-nut in the extrusion.
     
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  13. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    What does the top of the bolt look like before modification? Does it thread into a nut inside that cam lever? I think I would prefer to cut on that end and save buy an m8 bolt, mostly because I would want to buy an m8 bolt with a t-slot end.

    Maybe I will stop being cheap and get some of these McMaster-Carr
     
  14. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Oops, meant M5x35...

    As for the connection, it's fairly simple. The threads are tight however as this end of the rod was not intended to be adjustable.

    IMG_0271.JPG

    As for the M8 T-stud, it's way too big for V-Slot. (Sorry for leading you astray on that one.) The biggest bolt that will fit is 1/4-20 and you may need to grind the head of any T-headed bolt that big to get it into the slot.

    I'm currently working on a drill press table and plan to use 1/4-20 hot shoe studs with the sides trimmed as part of the hold down system. Cam clamps to use with these are fairly easy to find should you want to go that route.
     
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  15. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    Hmmmm... I like this table saw fence. I may make one, but maybe add steppers and a control panel. Zero it against the blade then input the width you want to cut. Not necessary, but fun. :)

    Edit: This has me thinking, if "necessity" is the mother of invention, then is "not necessary, but fun" the drunken uncle of invention?
     
  16. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    Now another engineering debate. Because these are soft wheels, I have to be careful about how the clamping force interacts with the wheels on the rail. Do I use one on each side of the fence and/or on both gantries?

    Depending on what I do it could tilt the fence or pull the bearings out of the wheels.

    I almost wonder if I could put the clamp on another wheel and use that as the brake in line with the rest of the wheels.
     
  17. wmelendez

    wmelendez Well-Known
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    Hi, I'd being thinking to build a fence like this for a while, with the same problem about the brake. What you think about using a C-Bean linear actuator, with a wheel handle instead of an stepper motor? and just a rail at the other side. This way you don't need a brake.
     
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  18. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    The brake just showed up, but now I am having second thoughts. Its almost a waste to invest so much good material (open builds) in my terrible table saw.
     
  19. wmelendez

    wmelendez Well-Known
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    Yes, I got the same feeling... the materials to use cost more than my table saw, that's why I was trying to get to a design without motors and as simple possible, at the end I want a better saw anyway. But, it is still a very cool project.
     
  20. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    So I finally did some work on this. I stumbled across a small toggle clamp which worked perfect if not over priced. I did a POC using nuts as spacers so I could double check my measurements and calculations. I just ordered my 40mm spacers and my 60mm shoulder bolts. I ended up not likely the hub clamps mentioned above because they snapped too easily. I would have rathered use the toggle clamp in a direction either opposing the wheel axis or braking on the rail but the fasteners prevented that.

    tablesawfence.jpg


    tablesawfenceOVER.jpg


    IMG_0097.JPG

    IMG_0099.JPG
     
  21. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    I need some help. The delrin wheels allow the rail to flex when clamped down. This is exactly why I didn't want to clamp with force perpendicular to the radial axis of the wheels. Would the polycarbonate or steel be better
     
  22. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Polycarbonate might be better but you might consider moving the clamp to end of the plate and pushing against the rail instead. This would eliminate the torsional leverage on the system.
     
  23. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Going by the first picture above, wouldn't it be just easier to devise a clamp to go through the plate, directly into the centre gully with a tee nut, and put in any necessary spacers so as not to put any stress on the wheels. Rick's bicycle clamp, or similar, really looks to be the easiest method. :thumbsup: Even a bolt with a knurled head would do as well.
    Additionally, with a few springs included, could you not create notches at say inch, or centimeter marks, and pre-mark them?
    Gray
     
  24. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    I could do a corner bracket or a cube but I would probably need spacers to get the position perfect. This little clamp is strong for its size and the price was killer cheap compared to what I expected. I wanted to position it under the plate but then the open position has no room for the handle.

    They are discontinued and although I can find similar, I think the required close tolerances would be a deal killer. It would have to be basically rubbing on the top.

    That was the original plan but I was having trouble finding the right hardware to enable it. The bicycle clamp was very very cheap, but it was very very very very cheaply made. Snapped one of them and then the other I still have yet to find (whoops). Nice Idea about the notches but I prefer to have a scale on the table, tape like that is fairly cheap.

    I tried that, the screws and nuts on the underside of the plate would rub the rail. Its not even close where I could just grind down the nut and cut the screw. It is tight. Might try polycarbonate if this all fails. Thanks.
     
  25. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    So, I found this little angle bracket in my junk bin and it worked. Also, my shoulder bolts and spacers came in and everything is perfect.

    IMG_3136.JPG

    IMG_3140.JPG
     
  26. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    Well back to the drawing board. If I want to use the miter slot, then I need to move the spacer and bolt attaching the table to the top slot of the extrusion . If I do that then I can only used rollers on one side of the carriage. So I think I am going to order some openrail to stack on top of a 20x20 extrusion instead of the 20x60. Of course that will flex more. And I will also have to redo the spacers under my rollers to adjust the spacing of the main fence and table height.
     
  27. Don Crawford

    Don Crawford Well-Known
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    Done. The spacers weren't perfect, but after spending $25 bucks on spacers which I thought were perfect and they weren't I was willing to do some finangling.

    I need to find some square spacers or I will try to just use small bits of extrusion. I also need to find a small L bracket that is better for the brake but for now it works perfect. The fence is a bit long so I will need to cut that too. All and all I am happy




    IMG_3372.jpg IMG_3373.jpg IMG_3374.jpg
     

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