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New Spindle

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by sunil, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    Hi Guys

    So i have the ox cnc for a few months now from the guys ozznet kit with a makita style router so now i have decided to swap it for a 2.2kw water cooled one.

    So today i have mounted everything and i guess the z motor (nema23) doesnt like the weight of it..



    Is there something i can do stop it dropping? new stepper motor? or is the spindle just too heavy?

    Thanks in advance

    Sunil
     
  2. Darathy

    Darathy Journeyman
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    Hehe i have the 2.2kw motor aswell but i havent mounted it yet since i was suspecting the nema 23 wouldnt be able to hold it. I am hoping the high torque series can ,otherwise i have wasted 260€ for it :(
    Hope someone can answer us :)
     
  3. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    i hope so, i know i have the 175oz NEMA23 and bigger ones are avaliable so maybe thats the answer
     
  4. Ronald van Arkel

    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

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    Or... you can use the 2.2kW as a 7kg+ / 15.4lbs+ paperweight (sell)... and get a 1.5kW one that is about 63-67% less in weight, air-cooled that is. The frequency controller and clamp most likely can be used for a 1.5kW spindle as well (clamp if you get a 85mm diameter spindle).

    But, we do have customers that have a 2.2kW spindle on their Ox, but they have changed the motors for the twice as heavy ones (345) on the Z and X axis, bolted the 2x 20x60mm V-Slot together, using double belts (google for it if you have never seen it), swapped the Z axis out for a C-Beam double wide gantry plate and thus a C-Beam placed on the X/Z body. Sure I would not dare to talk about the Ox that uses the NEMA17 on the Z-Axis... Next step would be a single start 8mm Acme so the spindle would not, or less, pull down the Acme nutblock; our customers seem to be okay with the upgrades mentioned before. What I forgot to mention is, they use a 1440mm wide gantry to cut just over 1220mm / 4' on the X axis.

    I do believe however, that leaving the woodrouter "spindles" behind is a good idea, but for aluminum 20 series extrusion builds I would recommend to not go over 1.5kW - they are 2.6kg / 5.7lbs about without the clamp(s) - and leave the aquarium pump where it is, go for air cooling and make your own dust shoe is you are creating too much dust (you always do with wood). Note that 1.5kW spindles come in ER11 and some in ER16 collets from factory, while the 2.2kW comes with an ER20.

    Just my 2c,

    -Ronald
     
    GrayUK and sunil like this.
  5. Florian Bauereisen

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    Hi.
    Only reason to go 2,2 kw is, as mentioned the use of ER20 collets.
    I have used a 800w air-cooled spindle more than 3 years and have not used it to limits when using 6mm bits.
    Recently i swapped it for a 65mm 1,5 kw watercooled simply for two reasons;
    Want to create a new dust-shoe and hold-down design which is more easy with water-cooled spindles and second
    the bearings on the latter are further appart which is always a good thing.
    For stopping a big spindle from creeping down it is nescesary to use a spindle with little tpi/tpcm like a 16/5 or 16/4 cm one.
    apart from that it should have been obvious (common sense) that a 5kg spindle is far too heavy and thus will not only slide down by it self but aditionally induce twist into your gantry, rendering it useless unless heavylie reinforcing your cnc. You should have tried first by using a bag full of sand/lead... on top or your old router.
    have a look at my avatar, the 140kg diy-cnc is build for lightweight spindles but could take the 2,2 if one chooses. But than it might be tripple as strong at the very least than any ox.
    If you really want to keep it there is electric breaks for steppers but make sure your BOB/cam combo can deal with it.

    greets

    flo
     
    sunil likes this.
  6. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    Thanks for the inputs guys.. yes main reason i went for the 2.2 was the er20 collets as my router has only option of 1/4 collet!

    [​IMG]

    The dust boot is kinda covered

    15697391_10155023421639742_3988530453321811609_n.jpg

    So this is what ive got so far below for the new spindle:

    15134736_10154874500859742_2738157176923481319_n.jpg

    I quite like the water cooled feature (noise, less dust getting blown around)

    Looking at getting new steppers for the x and z etc, guess it makes more sense to get another spindle

    So i am guessing the vfd i have is fine, just need to get a new air cooled spindle and mount as all the ones ive seen, are 65mm o/d.

    Are all water cooled spindles heavy like the 2.2kw?
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Ronald van Arkel

    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

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    The watercooled router (65mm diameter) is about 3kg, that's 4kg less than the spindle you have now. Get a second clamp like you have and use a shim to mount the 170mm long body of the motor to the Z-axis. The body of the watercooled spindle is the same length as the aircooled one. The VFD can be used changing the parameter for function PD142 (Rated Motor Current).

    Personally I like the idea of a aircooled router that is about half a kilo less in weight and blows the area around the bit clean if used at 24k rpm, you already have a nice dustshoe and it would take care of the dust any way. I know it's just me, same with the motorbikes I had, all air (and oil) cooled except for a 50cc 2-stoke I had when I was 18... on the other hand, the microprocessor in my PC is watercooled :D.
     
    Mark Carew and sunil like this.
  8. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    Thanks for the info Ronald, seams i need to decide what to do..

    Im sill steering towards a water cooled one due to it not blowing the dust about, i tend to cut mdf so the dust flys allover the garage lol

    Do you think that the nema23 will be ok with the water cooled 1.5kw option

    Also ill get another mount like the one below

    [​IMG]
     
    #8 sunil, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  9. Ronald van Arkel

    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

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    Don't waste your money on a mount like that, they are cheap to make and that is why they sell those, on the other side, it does give you 108mm of height adjustment possibility. Go with something that has 2 clamps, buy another like you have now and make a nice shim for it. If the base is made for the Bosch 1HP Colt router, you can use a PVC shim made out of a 1/8" wall tube; easy to cut and works/looks good.

    And put a heavier sucker on that dustshoe if dust still blows around :D.
     
  10. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    You might consider installing a lower pitch screw if the nema 23 doesn't hold it. You'll also get better vertical resolution as a side benefit.
     
  11. Ronald van Arkel

    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

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    By the way, that kit comes with a NEMA17 motor isn't it? o_O

    EDIT: Scratch that, I see a NEMA23 at the back..
     
  12. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    yes all of the steppers are nema 23 (2303hs280aw-c)
     
  13. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    So finally got some specs for the spindles:

    1.5kw water cooled spindles:
    Spec: φ65x188 mm (Diameter:65mm x Length:188mm)
    Power: 1.5 KW
    Voltage: 220V~250V
    Frequency: 400 Hz
    Speed:8000-24000 R/min
    Water Cooling
    Runout off: less than 0.005mm
    Grease Lubrication
    Product Dimension:29 x 13 x 12 cm (L x W x H)
    Weight: 9 lb

    1.5kw air cooled:
    Spec: φ65x188 mm (Diameter:65mm x Length:188mm)
    Power: 1.5 KW
    Voltage: 220V~250V
    Frequency: 400 Hz
    Speed:8000-24000 R/min
    Air Cooling
    Runout off: less than 0.005mm
    Grease Lubrication
    Product Dimension(Approximated): 15"L x 7"W x 7"H
    Weight: 7 lb

    So i'm guessing ill be on the limit getting the watercooled one but should be safe getting the air cooled one?
     
  14. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    Just tested what sort of weight the motor could take..

    15781286_10155030123414742_945198530647642973_n.jpg

    SO it takes 3 bottles, a cut off of 3/4 mmf and the mount which cant been seen

    15781372_10155030122684742_2277213925220494565_n.jpg

    15726689_10155030123029742_2962241297687172116_n.jpg

    the 3 bottles and mdf weigh 9.6lb plus the mount so to be on the safe side, i think the air cooled wins.. thoughts please??
     
  15. Darathy

    Darathy Journeyman
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    just weighted my 2.2kw spindle to 5kg +water which is probably only 200g ,I really dont wana exchange the motor becouse i already purcheased clamp,waterpump+tube, 2 sets of ER20 collets (metric and imperial). Would there actualy be that much deflection from the weight? I have ordered the hightorque nema 23s which can handle the weight i belive.

    I forgot to mention that i have the Plate maker not the OX which has a shorter X axis.
     
  16. Florian Bauereisen

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    Test it!
    extend your z all the way down, put a fishing scale to a long bit and pull some 20 kg.
    Deflection should be only a few 1/100 mm .... if more you are likely to break small bits while milling.
    I have just attached this vid to another thread...but once more wont do any harm:


    greets

    flo
     
  17. sunil

    sunil Well-Known
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    Yes same here, bought everything plus a full set of collets doh

    I'm just going to keep it box incase i build another stronger machine

    Think its going to be a 1.5kw air cooled one for mine
     
  18. John Hoagland

    John Hoagland Well-Known
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    How about springs or counterbalance weight of some sort?

    Even a few rubber bands, just for testing of course. LOL
     
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