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Lead 1010 Upgrade - CNC4Newbie 7" slider - raise x gantry - spindle upgrade

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Jdubster3d, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. Jdubster3d

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    Hi sorry if most or all of this has been covered but looking at possibly upgrading my Lead 1010

    1. Raise x gantry to gain another 1" or 2" in Z cutting height
    2. Upgrade to the CNC4Newbie 7" Slider Kit
    3. Swap Dewalt 611 to Air Cooled Non Chinese bearing Spindle

    Has anyone done everything listed above? If so are there any issues or tips you can give?

    If not please help if you have at least raised your x-gantry, is it a bad idea will i get more deflection?

    Lastly please help with deciding on a spindle. Ideally it wouldn't be water cooled(i heard they were to heavy) also I would like to avoid Chinese(at least Chinese bearings)

    Thank you!!
     
  2. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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    Huge Z-Mod upgrade about to be released. Perfect for anyone that already has the LEAD 1010 and is looking for more height. A LOT more height. Just days away!
     
    Peter Van Der Walt and sharmstr like this.
  3. graham prinn

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    Oh? will this be for the workbee as well? I'm interested in the 1510 but need more Z clearance.
     
  4. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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    This particular upgrade is for the LEAD 1010.
     
  5. Jdubster3d

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    Now you got me excited!
     
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  6. Jdubster3d

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    hOW MUCH LONGER!?!?! Im ready any updates Mary? thanks
     
  7. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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    Guys, it won't be too much longer. We are busy crossing the "T's" and dotting the "I's" on the administrative pieces. 8 inches on the Z guys. This is the upgrade everyone will want!
     
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  8. Jdubster3d

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    quick question, how will i know when this gets released? will there be something sentout via email? i think im subscribed, or will it just show up in the store? thanks
     
  9. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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    We will be sending out an email blast. May even see some news at the top of the home screen.
     
  10. Jdubster3d

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    Do you guys recommend a spindle that works well with openbuilds CNC's
     
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Yes we do: DeWALT DWP611 Compact Router

    Simple, powerful, perfect fit and proven over years!
     
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  12. Jdubster3d

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    Thanks peter I have the 611 currently and do like it but have been looking at doing more aluminum so want slower speed and quieter operation. Super PID is one option I'm exploring but also like to see what other ways I can go but looking into all the different options of spindles has been a bit of a rabbit hole. Seems water cooled anything is going to be to heavy and 1.5kw is the largest I think is neccessary but then I see bad things about certain overseas bearing and voltage blah blah...any info is appreciated! Thanks
     
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Play the pros and cons game. Complexity, weight, mounting woes, a lot more EMI, all count against a VFD.

    Noise: i cant hear my dewalt over the noise coming from the endmill and the sheet of material vibrating.

    Lower RPM. Chipload is a function of speeds, and feeds. So when your RPM cannot go lower, just increase feed. Use a chipload calculator. Or use high RPM tooling

    We chow Aluminum, even 3D carvings, with Dewalts all the time. Do you want a VFD because you really need it? (; or because the other cool kids has it (;

    An extrusion based machine will flex long before you see the real advantages of a VFD. So i'd rather spend that budget you were going to spend, on quality endmills, materials to make stuff with, or some machine upgrades.
     
    #13 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:56 AM
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 1:01 AM
  14. Jdubster3d

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    Thanks for the reply you are really putting a good case out for the dewalt, i think i may just keep it and possibly add the super pid. So with that being said the next thing i want to do is add more height to my Z. Seems as though i can just buy longer extrusions for the vertical posts on the x gantry and then get a z axis with longer throw. I have been looking at the CNC4Newbie Lead 1010 upgrade but Mary has also brought to my attention the fact that openbuilds is coming out with a kit soon for the Lead 1010(which i am right now in a wait and see before i pull the trigger on anything, so hurry up openbuilds!! ;) )

    So...with all that being said my question is about raising the x gantry by simply buying longer extrusions. I am trying to at least get 2" more and really dont need much more than that. Can you offer any advice on doing this or suggestions. How high is to high is there a better way to do it or should i not do it at all!!

    Thank you very much for the help
     
  15. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    The coming kit does a lot more than just raise the gantry. I cant tell you what (NDA) but the kit solves the issue that long Z axes usually twist the X beam, so wait a little for it, I've seen it and what it can do, its worth the wait. (It changes X too)
    The CNC4newbies thing also twists the X rail, not worth it
     
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  16. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    I am intrigued. I bought linear rails to upgrade mine and then realized I need to cut all new plates for the Y axis motor mounts since I need to bump out my x axis on each side 1/4 inch due to the width of the new parts. I think I will wait and see on this.
     
  17. B.andrewsmith

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    Is this upgrade similar to the dual c-beam x-axis w/longer z-axis that was shown on Instagram and youtube in May?



    Will there be any sort of promotional credit for those of us that bought the 1010 machine bundle not knowing there was twist/flex of the x-axis just from the stock z-gantry? Maybe a way to utilize existing parts we have without replacing for larger ones? I love the modular system and would hope there'd be a useful way to use the extrusions and parts. Maybe an instructional to use the parts that will come off for the upgrade to then construct a 4th axis or rotary option with purchase of an additional stepper motor?

    Openbuilds sells quality parts and components and I'd love to hear any other ideas anyone has for what to use or build with excess parts after an upgrade.
     
  18. Matthew Bates

    Matthew Bates OpenBuilds Team
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    This is the modification. Further more, the modification was designed to give the user increased height without compromising strength (hence, the additional X-Axis Gantry and structural components) with this increased height special measures were taken to ensure that the strength is comparable to the existing LEAD 1010 (which is a strong, and rigid machine design). In your comment you describe twist/flex of the x-axis, this is not the case for the standard LEAD 1010 in its current configuration. Utilizing a 250mm z-axis, along with the 250mm 20x80 V-Slot Gantries for the y-axis creates a stout machine design that can hog through hard materials such as aluminum (without extreme flex in the x-axis C-Beam). The "High Z" will be a modification so the build utilizes existing parts from the LEAD 1010 and it will be easily adapted to your existing system. A comprehensive build video has been created for this mod and will guide you through the assembly, step by step.
     
  19. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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  20. Batcrave

    Batcrave Well-Known
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    I just saw the email announcement - exciting!

    But I was looking at the description and noticed a worrying omission in the line "The structural design is rigid and capable of milling through hard woods and plastics". Is that meant to imply the modified machine is no longer suited to aluminum?


    -Bats
    (not that Z travel or rigidity are really the limiting factors in a machine without a motherboard, but...)
     
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  21. MaryD

    MaryD OpenBuilds Team
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    When using an extended bit we recommend the use of softer materials, such as wood and foam. However, you can lower the Z axis down and cut harder materials just like the LEAD CNC.


     
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  22. Batcrave

    Batcrave Well-Known
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    Ah, so it's an issue of tool deflection & collet runout (I noticed that shiny new PreciseBits kit, too) rather than machine rigidity?

    If that's the case, I'm sold. As often as not, the times I feel cramped in Z have more to do with tool changes and fixture height than actual workpiece thickness anyhow.... although I do have a cheap 100mm long indexable endmill on a nice beefy 10mm shank that I've never gotten a good chance to try out.


    -Bats
    (and now I just need a working PC... *sigh* anyone got a spare uATX AM3 motherboard with a parallel port/header?)
     
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  23. Matthew Bates

    Matthew Bates OpenBuilds Team
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    Hi Bats, yes to counteract tool deflection & collet runout (especially when using a long bit) we use the new precision collet, which works amazing! The detail and accuracy provided through this simple adaptation is truly impressive! I totally agree this modification finally frees up your work area and gives you the ability to mill out some thick material (8" worth) lol! Definitively a solid build that is capable of some serious manufacturing!

    -Matt
     
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  24. Jdubster3d

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    So I guess I'm a little confused. The router is mounted to the carriage and rides on the extrusion so the only way you can reach the bottom(spoil board) is to use a crazy long bit which I dont have any of or lower the extrusion down which then cuts your z height to maybe even less than we had before? Sorry if I'm coming off rude just trying to see if I'm looking at that correctly.

    Thanks!
     
  25. Jdubster3d

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    Also it looks as though anytime I want to mill aluminum I would need to lower my z gantry which sounds simple but there is quite a bit to that when dealing with runout and trying your spindle up to your spoil board especially if you just surfaced it. Couldnt we just add a piece of extrusion to the back to connect the 2 gantry to stiffen it up then mount the router to the front in the same manner it was mounted before that way the extrusion travels with the router so it doesn't get in the way? Sorry not trying to be a party pooper but I was really excited waiting for this and am a little underwhelmed at the moment thank you. Also dont get me wrong it is a great option for a lot of builds and truly impressive I just switch my material types almost daily and cant dedicate the machine to soft or hard material plus I can start over buying bits that are longer it's just not an option thank you
     
  26. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    @Jdubster3d, what you seek is fairly simple to accomplish using the same kit of parts assembled in a different manner.

    Concept below maintains the plunging axis so you don't need to use longer bits and only raises the Z-axis up 2" so you keep the system lean and tight. Putting the X-axis stepper on the lower level also induces less flex in the system.

    LEAD - High Z alternate.jpg

    Sketchup file attached.
     

    Attached Files:

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  27. Batcrave

    Batcrave Well-Known
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    Ok, I like this version a lot more... mostly because it works the way I thought the High Z mod was working in the first place. Obviously I didn't bother to look very closely at the original design - thanks to Jdubster for noticing that "you can lower the Z axis down" isn't the same thing as "the Z axis can travel down". I'm not so thrilled by the idea of breaking out the tools to rearrange the machine (and then potentially have to worry about re-squaring everything) whenever I switch between materials or tool lengths.

    One other thing that's been nagging at me about the design (in either version)... Don't the extra-tall 20x80 rails mean an awful lot of additional leverage (against the Y wheels, and/or against the narrow dimension of the 20x80s themselves) when the machine's cutting in X? Or is that just something else I haven't looked at closely enough?

    (also, it looks like the link to "(Complete part list)" on the High Z page links to the parts list for the main Lead kit, not for the upgrade kit - I'm not sure whether that's intentional or unavoidable, but it's a little confusing when trying to figure out what exactly is involved)


    -Bats
    (you know what else is a little confusing? trying to make words before making caffeine)
     
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  28. Jdubster3d

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    @Rick 2.0

    thank you for the quick redesign im with @Batcrave that i like this design much more. Do you think it would make more sense to just get +/-350mm long vertical rails for the side post and just raise the x gantry up and be done? Does adding the extra height on the vertical post and the second cross member add to the setups rigidity as much as it adds stress to the rest of the components. Like i said the original upgrade design is a good design for the specific task but I am asking because this is what i was intending on doing originally just adding longer posts on the left and right side and simply raising the x up about 2". Let me know if you think it would be necessary to go with the extra cross beam. Also could i use Cbeam on the side vertical posts for extra rigidity to help avoid any potential for flex, or would that not work mounting cbeam that way?

    thank you for the info and help I really like my LEAD1010 and open builds all together just dont think the upgrade is going to be right for me so i need to redesign as soon as possible and order the parts i need for the extended height. Now that im thinking about it i may have a problem, custom cutting the lengths for the side vertical posts isn't a big deal but creating a custom length for the z linear actuator wont be so easy, they come in 250mm or 500mm which explains why your @Rick 2.0 redesign still deploys the high mounted rig...hmmm I guess that leaves me with 2 options. raise the x gantry so that my 250mm linear actuator nearly bottoms out at the top in order to make it to the spoil board which would probably give me about 1.25" to 1.75" more or go with the 500mm actuator and the double x gantry. Dang it wouldn't be difficult to make a custom length linear actuator, everything except the screw length.
     
  29. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    The parts store will cut extrusions down to specified lengths if you request it on the order. If you need two more inches, order a couple 300mm lengths cut from 1000mm stick.

    As for the height of the Z-axis shown in the sketch, that was simply due to reusing the available parts. Personally, I would limit the length to what is actually usable (ie. the amount above the upper rail would be limited to the amount of downward travel needed) and I would limit the overall height based on what I intend to use the system for.
     
  30. Jdubster3d

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    Thank you! The real question is will they cut the screw to the matching length of the extrusion?
     

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