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Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Jason Farley, Feb 8, 2015.
Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Jason Farley, Feb 8, 2015.
Planning my first build. Hope to achieve a larger format yet rigid design.
Jason Farley published a new build:
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Can anyone provide any insight or details on the extrusion pictured? I do not know the source of it and dimensionally it is a bit different than some of the common stuff.
Approx 2.5" x 3.5"
3" x 1.5"
The second one looks to be 80/20 15 Series. I'll have to dig around on the first one though. strange.
Yeah I thought the second would be the easiest to identify as it did not look all the different than fairly standard 80/20 stuff.
I have a decent bit of the first style.
1 piece of 2.5" x 3.5" x 25" Long
2 pieces of 2.5" x 3.5" x 18" Long
and 2 pieces of 2.5" x 3.5" X 30.5" Long
There are several small pieces as well that are bolted to some Bosch corner brackets like these below. Makes me wonder if it is related to that.
If I cant use it on my build than i will just save it for another project. It is beefy stuff though.
Well that answered my own Question.
Bosch Rexroth 60X90H 60 Series Profile.
Huh, I looked through the Bosh profiles and didn't see anything even close. That is some heavy duty stuff. Maybe you can use it to make a solid base.
I have a welded steel table that came with the lot of parts I bought.
The problem I have with it and the Bosch extrusion is the target dimension. I would like the ability to handle standard 4'x8' sheet material in either half length (4'x4') or have it setup as a pass through with outrigger support for the other half of the full sheet hanging out.
This would mean a 48" gantry dimension. I do not have any 48"+ pieces of the Bosch extrusion. I have some 30.5" long pieces but that is as long as I have currently.
I could easily splice length for the side rails since nothing will be riding on them. Splices in the gantry though would not be good. I may have to buy a couple additional lengths or resign myself to ~30" for a gantry length.
The table is also undersized so I am going to re-purpose it as a stand for my bench top drill press, chop saw, and grinder. I will probably build a heavy wood table or weld up another table to support the router.
How about sandwiching a piece, or couple of pieces, of that Bosch between two pieces of our Slotted rail?
That would make a really strong X axis!
It would make for a strong axis I am sure, especially if tied together in some way. I do not know if that is needed or if it is the best option for the end product but it could work.
With the great extrusion mystery solved, although decisions remain, it is time to move on to other mysteries.
I have three of these stepper motors with three matched driver units. http://www.grainger.com/product/AUTONICS-Stepper-Mtr-5PFF3
Are these Autonic 5PFF3's up to the task on a slightly large OX? Looking At the specs I think so.
I really will need another one to complete the build with dual drive on the rails and single on the Gantry axis and Z axis.
I am thinking I will just buy a similar spec NEMA 23 framed motor for the Z axis so that the X and Y are matched motors. I do not really want to pay the price Grainger has on these. It is more than I paid for three of them with the drivers. Hopefully the NEMA 23 in the store is more than up to the task of the Z axis. http://openbuildspartstore.com/nema-23-stepper-motor/
The original OX was specced for a Nema 17 on the Z. Most of the community, including myself, want something beefier. My point being, your motors are spec'd at 218oz holding torque. The OpenBuilds NEMA 23 is 175. It should be more than enough for your Z Axis.
That is what I had hoped and thought after looking at the specs. I was just concerned I was missing something simple, as I often do.
I will need to source another motor wire harness with plug for one of these motors. He must have lost one Hopefully I can find a replacement that does not exceed the cost of another motor.
I think I am going to scale this back slightly to 36" x 36". I had hoped to build large enough to handle standard sheet width. Honestly though I can see that being a bit overkill and a space hog in the shop. Even if I wish to do some custom cabinet or furniture wood working it is not often I would be dealing with cuts/pieces larger than 36".
This will save considerably on guide and rail material. Things like supported linear rail get very expensive at or over 48". They are not necessarily cheap at 36" but much more reasonable and available.
Anyone have a source for hardened linear guide rod/rail in .750" diameter?
I have to ~30" length and like 8 3/4" ID linear bearings in the parts I bought. If I can find 3 lengths of ~40" rod at a reasonable price I could cut one of the 30" pieces for the Z axis and be in good shape. I wonder if 3/4" drill rod is dimensionaly stable enough to use as a guide rod.
Yet another topic of discussion is the controls side of things.
I have this board and module most likely sourced from ebay here.
5Axis CNC Breakout Board Set + Display + KeyPad For MACH3 CNC Control Software
I also have a second break out board of unknown origin. It appears to be a WTOTOY break out board. I am assuming based on some information found on setting one up is an additional board that it is not needed if the first breakout board set with keypad is used. Is this correct? With a second set of motors and drivers I could use this second board on yet another CNC setup correct?
Additionally there was a third set of controls in the package. It is a Autonics PMC-2HS-U513 which as I understand is a 2D programmable controller and not really usable in a CNC router setup. I am thinking this module will go on ebay in the near future unless I can learn of another use for it.
Oh how I miss Solidworks.
Google Sketchup is so limiting and such a pain to get used to. I am slowly learning but things that are intuitive and simple in Solidworks are either non existent or far to complex in Sketchup.
I have attached what I have for a basic design idea so far. It is far from complete and is missing things like hardware and corner brackets. Keeping in mind it is a work in progress I would love any input on the design.
Side rails (Y) are 2080 VSlot. (1000mm length)
Cross supports are 2040 VSlot (1000mm length)
Gantry Beams are two Bosch Rexroth 60x90H Extrusion beams (roughly 1000mm long)
1/2-10 5 start lead screw for X, Y, and Z (not fully shown on model yet
Guides are 3/4" OD Hardened, Ground, and Zinc plated Linear Shafting 2 shafts per axis. (42" long each for X and Y)
Jason, how far have you come with your project? I am planning on building an Ox very soon but have been reading that Ball screws are much more accurate and really reduce backlash. I haven't read of anyone specifically mentioning backlash issues with their Ox but I would be surprised if that wasn't a problem especially with the ACME lead screws. Open builds recently released their linear "C"rail which I think could be a good choice to use on the X Axis to incorporate Ball screws. Very curious how your build is coming, I don't want to drop the cash on the ball screws if the standard Ox design is not having a backlash issue but I do want this machine to be accurate and make clean cuts.
It is not progressing. Everything is in storage as I empty my house to put it on the market. I am moving into temporary housing while I build a new house. The builder says it should be done Jan. 2016. Nice thing is I will have a shiny new 28'x12' shop and a 3 car garage. The shop no longer will have to share space with the cars and motorcycles.
All of my research was enough to make me not even consider GT2 or GT3 belts. Screw or rack and pinion is the way to go.
Oh wow, nice that you'll have a large shop to work in. I park my cars outside so the garage is for storage and shop stuff but my home brewing hobby takes up allot of that space too! I haven't done too much research on the backlash of the GT belts but know the ACME is not as accurate as the ball screws. I'm looking at buying the OX Kit by SMW3d.com but it uses the GT belts. I plan to run a circle test with it to see if backlash is an issue. My initial uses for my cnc will not need super accuracy so not too concerned up front. I do however want the capability to machine higher tolerance parts when I start machining Aluminum.
Random thoughts. Sorry. Its early.
I can't speak to the cbeam and ball screw question as I haven't done the research. Is a ballnut available that will fit in there?
Ballscrews are around 90% efficient at translating motion. acme is roughly 60% and varies more based on the nut.
I picked up my ballscrews from ebayer Dorladream. They cut and machine them to lengths I needed, included mount blocks, and gave me a quote I couldn't say no to.. Amazing service. Packaging was excellent, but shipping from china is mf, so order ahead.
There are a good number of acme antibacklash nut designs out there. I don't know if diy methods are single lead only. Something to look into.
There are Oxers around here that have performed circle tests with good results. The gt3 belts are constant contact and the more the belt you get on the drive pulley the better. Belts stretch and skip. Mount double idlers if possible.
Some software can accommodate for backlash to some degree. Mach3 is one.
Aluminum extrusion isn't pefectly straight. It also may have twist.
My build has been all over the house and garage. There's beer equipment sprinkled in there too. My wife brewed a few weeks back and I'm refusing to clean it. I have my own messes to tend to. Now that I think of it, I drank a good amount of it. I guess I'll clean after work.
This will be the fist time in a long time I will have all my cars and bikes in the garage. We have my wife's car, my car, my street bike, my wife's street bike, and two vintage motorcycles that all need to get stored in the garage. I will be adding a pickup truck next year and a new dirt bike to the stable. One of the vintage bikes will probably have to go when the dirt bike shows up. The pick up will probably live out doors. The welders and metal working equipment along with the tire changer will all have to live in the main garage with the bikes. The wood working equipment and my wife's kilns and glass tools will occupy the shop.
I have been a brewer for a bit more than 10 years now. I make more cider and mead than I do beer these days but I still get a beer going every few months. I know what you mean about taking up space. I plan on having all the brew equipment in an additional "pub shed" in the back yard. It will serve as both a brew space and and entertainment space off the patio and fire pit. I plan on opening a small commercial cidery next year after the house is done. Low production volume and really only serving my local area. I have commitments for a few tap handles in town already. I have been drumming up interest by serving at as many festivals and fund raisers as I can in my county.
Happy Wife, Happy Life! And you have one that brews so you should be doubly Happy!
Thats awesome what brewer doesn't dream of making money doing something we love. Sorry took me so long to get back to you. I hope that all works out for ya. I love a good Mead! Haven't had any in quite a while. Hey on a similar note I just ordered a bunch of V-slot for a brewstand! Thats right I'm gonna try it out, I hope it can handle the weight and temps. I beefed up the areas that will support the weight with the wider 20x80 mm stuff I think if the weight is supported in the wide axis then it should hold.... I hope! I put just over $200 in V-slot and hardware alone. I know many people have successfully used extruded aluminum for brew stands but I've seen more 2"x2" or 3"x3" stuff so I'm kinda breaking the mold on that but again the 80mm stuff is 3" on the wide axis so with that side vertical I would be surprised if it didn't hold. The price beats using stainless tubing and highering a welder by far! If I am successful with it I'm probably going to start a thread on it. I think it'll be a first!
Joe thanks for the feedback, I'm glad to know the circle test has been performed successfully with the OX. I'm am a total newb to machining although mechanically inclined I know there will be a steap learning curve. I work with machinists at work but they do more manual stuff on an old Bridgeport and lots of steel lathe turning so CNC is not really their area of expertise. But I have been watching them and asking questions. I am hoping that the GT3 belt will really help. Again I'm not making airplane parts so my accuracy does not need to be perfect I could live with 5-10 mils of error and still be fine. At least for now, making signs and mash paddles does not require 0.001 tolerance! Maybe when I start making RC car parts backlash will be much more of a concern.
I have seen and/or helped build several stands made from various things. A common one is the Steel Unistrut commonly available at home improvement and hardware stores. It offers plenty of support and bolt together construction without welding. It will rust but is galvanized to reduce that. It can rust quickly if you have the flame in direct contact with the unistrut. It is significantly cheaper than aluminum extrusion and is not unnecessarily heavy for its dimension.
I am sure the 80mm extrusion would be fine with typical brew kettles and 5 gallon batches. If you start putting converted kegs (keggles) on it with 10+ gallon batches I am not sure it would be the best choice. Personally I would use a steel heat and wind shield around the burner assemblies that connects to the frame. Basically use that steel heat shield as a mount for the burner. Direct flame on the extrusion or even the burner mounted directly to the extrusion could be a problem in my opinion.
I have seen stands made from 2x4 pine lumber with minimal metal flashing as heat shields and those people seem to be happy with the result. None of them have died or burnt down their homes yet so I would think some 80mm V slot would be just fine if assembled properly.
My old setup was 1" square steel tubing welded together and painted with BBQ grill paint. My new setup just sits on a 6' stainless commercial kitchen work table. No burners to worry about since I went electric so I can brew indoors. I still have a couple propane burners as well that I use as a portable rig. They are bolted down to a moving dolly/cart.