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Grizzly - The Double-Z I-Beam Ox

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Retrosmith, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Retrosmith published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
  2. Anthony Bolgar

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    Will be following this build. Nice idea.
     
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  3. Bad Sequel

    Bad Sequel Veteran
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    Wow cool build! :thumbsup:
     
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  4. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    This is one I'll be watching. :D
    My next build will be with a fixed gantry and moving platen, and I like the idea of a rising Z axis. :thumbsup:
    I guess you will be running both Z motors to a single port, as you would with the Y axis, so keep an eye on the current demand on your drivers. :rolleyes:
    Please keep us up-to-date with your progress, step by step, as I'm sure many will be checking out your design. :)
    Good Job, :thumbsup:
    Gray
     
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  5. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Thanks very much! Curious on this though: If the motors are powered externally through individual drivers, and the control signal is the only thing that will be split, are there still current issues with a dual-controlled axis like this?
     
  6. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    I realized that I hadn't included any pictures of the new X-gantry setup.

    20171119_214143.jpg 20171119_214152.jpg

    This setup feels absolutely rock solid. :)

    Note: The central spacers are cutoffs from a piece of 7/32 stainless tube that I got at my local Ace hardware store for $6 total. The bolts are 100mm socket-head bolts ordered from Amazon for $9.61 for ten.
     
  7. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Sorry, I didn't see any details on your electrics, but usually the two Y motors are supplied from the same point, with one having its wires reversed because of travel. Likewise, I thought the Z motors would be supplied similarly but without the reversion on the wires. :rolleyes:
    I didn't realise you were set up with individual drivers. Too much reading of control boards with on-board drivers. :)
    My bad. :banghead:
    Gray
     
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  8. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Just found your other thread about dual slave control :thumbsup:
    Gray
     
  9. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Happy to say that progress has been made on the power/control box!


    I had a sheet of 1/4" white acrylic left over from a previous project so I decided to use it for the top of the box.

    All of the drivers are in the open for air flow and just because I think they look awesome.

    There are two power supplies inside the box: the primary 40-volt and a smaller 12-volt that I already had. The smaller will be powering the Arduino (through a voltage regulator to take it down to 9 volts), the fans, and the water pump for the spindle. I removed the outer casing and the little noisy fans from the power supplies and installed a pair of 120mm 12-volt fans in the top of the box, with ventilation slits at the front. Should keep them both cooler than the stock setup.

    I have switches on the front for E-stop, feed hold, resume, main power and the water pump. The four small screws visible on the left side are the mounting screws for the Arduino. It's mounted upside down on the underside of the acrylic top.

    The right side has the communal ground strip mounted there. Everything that has a ground grounds there individually.

    I wanted the control box to be self-contained, so there are sockets in the back panel for the limit switches and water pump. Still have to put the sockets in for the probe and USB, as well as the motor wires. Those will be 5-pin aviation connectors to allow me to ground the drain wires from the shielding.

    If anyone with more electrical knowledge than I sees any issues with this setup *please* let me know before I get any further into this!

    Once the last sockets are in place it's on to wiring the machine itself and then assembling the control PC and the water loop for the spindle.

    20171121_155531.jpg 20171121_155508.jpg 20171121_155554.jpg
     
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  10. gta18

    gta18 New
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    Having separate z motors will introduce unevenness in the level of the gantry unless there is a mechanical bottom stop right?
     
  11. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    I'm not sure to be honest, though the raised sides of the machine do serve that purpose. I plan to have both sides of the gantry all the way down when I start the machine. I assume that as long as everything is working right since both motors on the Z axis will be receiving the same signal they should maintain position relative to each other.
     
  12. gta18

    gta18 New
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    Yes, once the motors are powered up they will be in sync and wont have any issues but from a standstill no power then u should make sure u have stops on both sides.


    I have this issue on my Mendelmax 3 printer which has separate motors, nowim designing something to mechanically sync both sides either with a belt and pulley system or connect both screws with pulley/belt.

    Just my .2cents.


     
  13. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Had a setback today. I've been looking at options for the water loop for the spindle decided to take one of the fittings off to take to the local hardware store to match up for tubing. When I put it back in it snapped the threads off inside the spindle. :eek:

    After a lot of searching I was able to identify the thread size and actually found what are supposed to be solid brass fittings that have the same 8mm x 1 thread and a 3/8 barb on Ebay. Parts ordered. If they really are 3/8 it will work out great as the rest of the parts (pump, radiator and flow indicator) are all using 3/8 ID tubing.

    I'll update when they arrive.

    (To anyone interested, it looks like these are the fittings used originally from the manufacturer)
     
  14. Anthony Bolgar

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    I had the same problem with my spindle, I snapped one off while tightening it. Found 8mm replacements that are much better.
     
  15. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Where did you find them? Like to have a backup in case these Ebay replacements aren't right. I give it 50/50.
     
  16. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Had a major setback this weekend. :( Finally got all the wiring done, got the PC built, got the controller programmed and everything hooked up. Came time to Flip The Switch.

    Flipped the switch and the motors made that satisfying CLUNK sound. Told the controller to jog right. Instead of that beautiful whirrr noise and smooth motion I got a really loud grinding noise and zero movement. Same on both the Y and Z axes. X axis didn't even get power to the motor. $#^*&#^*&!!!! The driver for the X axis was flashing a code for "overcurrent protection" and was doing its job not putting power to the motor.

    Given that all of the components are new, I'm sure it's a wiring issue somewhere. Problem is, when I wired that nice-looking control box I was lazy and used all black wire and made no attempt at organization. Shame on me. Since I knew there was no possible way I was going to trace down a wiring issue in that solid black knot of spaghetti, I gutted it. I'll rewire it all on my next weekend. I'm going to mount the Arduino up on top of the control box also so I can troubleshoot there if the need arises. I'll just have to make a small cover for it to keep the sawdust and (more importantly) aluminum shavings off of it.

    Update when the new wiring is done.
     
  17. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Hope you sort the problem without too much trouble. :)
    Now...... I did notice that little technical hitch with the black wiring when I saw the picture, but thought it was just sleeving! :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
    You can get little coloured identifying rings which slide onto the cable.
    Good luck :thumbsup::thumbsup:
    Gray
     
  18. JustinTime

    JustinTime Master
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    While wiring can be the reason for your problem it can also be some settings that are too high, like acceleration or motor current, to name a few. Since you have the same problem on all axis' I would have called 'setting' as my first problem.
     
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  19. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    The thought occurred to me, but I was honestly ashamed of that wiring job anyway. :)

    There was one difference in the symptoms though: Only the X-axis motor refused to move, with that driver being the only one to flash indicating an overcurrent or short circuit problem. This info is from the only source I could find, which is a pdf manual for the KL-5056D. Mine are KL-5056 drivers except for the X axis, which is the KL-5056E. I'm assuming the flash codes will be the same. "Over-current protection will be activated when continuous current exceeds 16A or in case of short circuit between motor coils or between motor coil and ground, and RED LED will turn on once within each periodic time (3 s)."

    16A is an insane amount of current obviously.

    Related question: The amount of current going to the motors is controlled by the dip switches on the drivers, correct? When the test was made, they were set to 3.2A, and I switched them to 3.8 and 4.3 before deciding to rewire it. There is also a dip switch that's labeled "full current" and "half current". That was in the "full current" position.

    Given the motors I'm using (NEMA23 270 oz/in 2.8A), they may well have been set above their limit but nowhere near 16A.

    Anything you can suggest try/change/do when I get the box rewired to try this again?

    Also, can you confirm that I can verify the wiring colors by testing continuity? The data sheet shows black A+, green A-, red B+ and blue B-, so testing on the connector end I should get continuity between black and green and between red and blue, right?

    Thanks for the info!
     
  20. JustinTime

    JustinTime Master
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    That is correct!
     
  21. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    It's occurred to me that I'll want to mount the upper Z-axis limit switch well below the actual upper mechanical Z travel limit. Otherwise the machine is going to have to travel 8 inches up every time I home it or use the Feed Hold function.

    That's an uncommon problem: too much Z. :)
     
  22. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    The project continues.

    I rebuild the control box, using color coded wire for different circuits, took my time and made everything easily identifiable.

    Got it all together, plugged it all up, powered it on and all the drivers showed green. Improvement right from the start.

    Sadly, not only would the machine not move, it wouldn't even grind. Nothing. No response whatsoever. UGS Panel showed connected and showed movement when the jog keys were hit but it wasn't moving. The motors did power on (all of them this time) but they were making an odd sound, like what you hear when water is running in the pipes behind the walls. I didn't think anything of it because my X-Carve used to make noise when it was first turned on but stopped as soon as a movement command of any kind was sent. In this case I couldn't get that far. :(

    I tore the control box apart again and I just about gave up and went back to the standard Z-slide-mounted-on-the-X axis. Went as far as tearing out the vertical linear rails and mounting the spindle on the slide, even bought a CNC shield and four driver chips to simplify things. Wouldn't be the machine I wanted but at least I might be able to get to do SOMETHING.

    I slept on it and decided to press on with the Grizzly design. It's torn down to the bed again now waiting for time to reassemble it. I had noticed some issues with the X-gantry that needed to be fixed anyway (three of the wheels were only touching the V-slot on one side, evidently my custom spacers are a tad short).

    Reassembly to begin on my next weekend. I'll be building the control circuits differently this time. I'm done trying to make it look pretty. I plan to assemble it on a piece of plywood that fits on the empty space to the left of the machine and only include the absolutely necessary at first: Arduino, power supply and drivers. Once I get that working I'll add the stop/resume switches, probe mount, limit switches etc.

    Also bought some thrust bearings and brass lead screw nuts so that I can put the longer lead screws under tension to minimize whip. May have to shorten the Y axes an inch or so to get enough screw out the front to mount the nut but hopefully not.

    More news as it happens.

    I have to also add here that I'm SUPER impressed with the customer service from the Open Builds Parts Store. Absolutely first rate, thanks guys!!!
     
  23. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    I know you have probably done this already but, have you tried the tabletop method?
    Just wire up the control board, the drivers and the motors with little flags on them, on the table, and see what works, and what doesn't.
     
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  24. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    That's kind of my plan this next go-round, but as easy as it is to mount the motors onto the finished machine I figured I may as well. Now that you put the thought in my head though, I may not.

    "Little flags" you say? Hmmm.....
     
  25. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Second reply: How would a guy go about doing this without a PC? Is there a way to manually power each circuit individually?
     
  26. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Just bits of tape wrapped around the spindles to define direction
     
  27. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Check out this video.
     
  28. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Set up the table test, got one motor hooked up and tested and it WORKS! Ha!

    Unfortunately it's also too hot to touch for more than a second. I know they get warm but this thing is HOT! Can I assume high current settings can cause this?
     
  29. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    Can you check how much you are pushing through it? It sounds a bit too hot to me. Is it going nice and smooth and quiet? Check out this video.
     
  30. Retrosmith

    Retrosmith Journeyman
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    Well, I think I found the cause of the heat. Checked the dip switches on the driver I was testing and sure enough one of them got switched, probably while I was moving it to the test area. Changed the current from the motor's rated 2.7A to 4.9.
     

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