Welcome to Our Community

Some features disabled for guests. Register Today.

Gantry Plate Assembly Issues

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Russell Zauner, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. Russell Zauner

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi,
    I searched the forum to see if there were some solutions posted already and didn't find anything. Please add links to posts if there are.

    I just got the C-Beam Actuator Bundle, and in assembling the Gantry Plate section I have a couple issues:
    1. The wheel assemblies that make up the guide portion; the bottom nuts are blocked with C-Beam so that it cannot slide.
    2. Tightened up just enough to keep them stable, the mini-wheel bearings are not turning smoothly. If I back off of them, they move around and will assumedly not stay attached.

    I am not completely new to mechanical things, but I am not an expert either. This is my first experience with building all the moving parts that go inside an actuator/stage and I would be grateful for any guidance (no matter how obvious it may seem) from those more experienced with these components.

    Thanks

    -russ
     
  2. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,669
    Likes Received:
    621
    If you could post some pictures of what you have so far, perhaps we can work out the problems.
    Gray
     
  3. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,428
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Issue #2 sounds like you didn't put the shim inside the wheel between the bearings.

    [​IMG]

    For issue #1, did you put a shim just underneath the nut? As the picture shows, one shim should be between the spacer (regular or eccentric) and the top bearing. The other should be inside the wheel.
     
  4. Russell Zauner

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Russell Zauner

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Are there more drawings like this? I was following the quick build out at YouTube and I guess I didn't catch the shim going inside. I'll try and get them apart and fix. That would explain the additional stack height, though. I thought there were detents inside the wheel that the bearings installed against, to keep them from pushing through...Thanks!
     
  6. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,428
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    There are more drawings but unfortunately there is no central repository for them. That drawing actually came from the parts store page which is often a good source of information.

    The detents keeps the wheel from working its way off the bearings. But it also creates a gap at the outer rim of the bearing to where when you pull the inner rings of the bearing together it locks up the bearing.
     
    GrayUK and Mark Carew like this.
  7. Russell Zauner

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yep. Learned that. Interesting. I recently started working for a mechanical analysis team and while a very experienced engineering technician (20+ years, across a broad swath of fields/disciplines), I haven't done a lot of work with detailed mechanical designs/builds. So I'm learning like mad - but I do learn fast.
     
  8. Russell Zauner

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    And yes, it's working now. Thank you for the guidance.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  9. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,428
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Out of all the Openbuilds parts, that internal shim is pretty much the only "gotcha" I can think of. And admittedly, it got me first time around too.
     
  10. Russell Zauner

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, it shipped with a different lead screw block - came with the anti-backlash. But with the guidance you've given me, I just went to the parts page and got a direct look at it. I did end up with extra 3mm spacers - but I know where those go. Under the block lol.

    Thanks again. :)
     
  11. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all

    none of my axis are moving in any direction.

    wheels and eccentrics all have been loosened.
    Power supply unit is at 20.1v can’t seem to get it any higher, the psu screw don’t do anything else when it turns.

    The motor I have a feeling they either not getting enough power or faulty. They are supposed to be NEMA 23 - 2.8A
    I’ve got a bulk man 1510 with a blackbox controller.
    I believe I’ve maxed out the current settings on blackbox. As that screw will no longer turn.

    this is my first build for a cnc and I think I’m at the point where I’ve done all I can think of process of elimination wise.

    will the 4v drop really affect the motors that much?

    does anyone know how to fix this issue.

    getting to the point where i want a specialist to look at it lol.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    446
    Is the PSU set to the correct input voltage?
     
  13. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    No it’s reading 20.1v

    it won’t go any higher

    Does anyone know the correct wiring for the NEMA 23 2.8a motors. I’ve been reading up they can vary
     
  14. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,428
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    You’ll need to identify the wiring pairs yourself. There is no international color standard. As for the power supply I’d suggest throwing it away and starting over. Clearly not a quality unit.
     
  15. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    446
    Input, not output.

    Buying cheap power supplies is usually a bad idea though, as Peter Rick says. Even the low-cost Mean Well ranges aren't the best, never mind all the off-brand and no-brand units.

    Edit: shows me for half-glancing at avis and not names.
     
    #15 Rob Taylor, Aug 25, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Project Maker Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    That will just overheat and shutdown the drivers. About halfway between the ends (factory default) is bang on to get you started: Refer docs:blackbox:currentadjustment [OpenBuilds Documentation] later on to fine tune, but start off with the default (about halfway)

    Procedure here: docs:blackbox:faq-identify-motor-coils [OpenBuilds Documentation]


    I agree! And a low quality PSU will have dirty power (surges, etc) that will kill your BlackBox in no time! Get a decent PSU: docs:powercase:start [OpenBuilds Documentation] it will just save you a lot of future hassle
     
    Rick 2.0 likes this.
  17. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok all done thank you.

    machine is working on x and y axis now flawlessly

    the y axis belt is rattling and Sounds like something is off. The x axis is belt driven and sounds great.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0

    (Edited) Sorry x and z is working flawlessly.

    y axis is the first in the video attached above. Any ideas as to how to fix?
     
  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Project Maker Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    looks like belt is not tight?
     
  20. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok I tried to tighten twice. I think I need to watch a video of how to best install it. Thank you
     
  21. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi again.

    I’ve got the wires connected properly and am having the issue with the Y axis and the gantry is not moving evenly. It’s pulling one side more than the other.
    I really have no clue what it is.
    I’ve checked the eccentrics, the belt tensions and soldered the wires so they don’t fray. I’m yet to get this machine working. Could it be a stepper motor issue? It’s the only axis not working. Should I take off the motors and try to see if they are working properly? Could they be moving at different step rates?
     
  22. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Project Maker Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Motor itself very unlikely... But Motor wiring possibly: docs:blackbox:faq-identify-motor-coils [OpenBuilds Documentation]
    Also make sure the / pulleys setscrews (or for leadscrew driven machines, the leadscrew to shaft couplers) are tight and not slipping on the motor shaft (or the leadscrew if used)
     
  23. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok the wiring goes

    Blue +
    Yellow -
    Red +
    Green -

    The x and z working great I thought I identified the pairs
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
    Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    720
    The colour coding on stepper motors is not standardised and from some suppliers (mentioning no names:rolleyes: ) have been known to supply motors with different colour coding in the same kit - the link @Peter Van Der Walt mentioned tells you how to check for sure.
    Alex.
     
  25. Mob1810

    Mob1810 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guys I’m really not sure how to get this machine running properly in the y + & y - direction.

    the wires are in reverse for the y2 motor. All connections are sorted.

    the eccentrics I’m struggling on getting correct.

    the machine looks like it’s got backlash but it has not. When I go back and forth on the y axis, it comes back less then it went forward.

    when I micro step 1mm you notice it. I still haven’t been able to use the machine or cut since having it. Feel like giving up all together now. I’ve purchased new xtreme v wheels to see if that would help.

    I cut at extremely slow feed rates and the design just don’t come out as designed. Software settings are fine.

    It’s the eccentrics I’m sure of it just can’t it right.

    it’s a belt driven machine.
    Do all 14 wheels on either end of the y axis have to move?
    Some are static when the eccentrics are loosed. When all xtreme v wheels move in the v slots the machine is too tight for motors and to push/glide easily.

    No traction when the v wheels are too loose.

    I’ve loosened the gantry plate bolts and the eccentrics still no luck.

    Apologies for the rant just at the end of my patience now with this machine.

    Any help on getting this machine to work smoothly and cut I’ll really appreciate it.

    I think I’ve come as far as I can :(
     
  26. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2013
    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    446
    Even if you only tighten up the four outside eccentric wheels on each side, that should go a long way towards improving machine performance. Obviously all of them should be tight though (not sure how tight, someone might have a standard, I'd guess maybe something like "can't roll over a piece of printer paper without jamming the axis"). There should be 16 wheels to tighten for Y. Any that are loose are offloading more cutting force onto the ones that are tight. Important to share the load evenly.

    Re: backlash, blue Loctite on the motor shaft (literally glue the pulley on), then blue Loctite on the set screw as well. Get at least 12kg/25lb of tension on both belts- it'll feel like a lot on a 5mm belt, but they should take it.

    Loosening anything is usually a bad idea. CNC machines need to be tight as a drum to function properly, they're not like manual machines where you can compensate by hand. Look up "workbee 1510 assembly" on YouTube if you haven't already, pretty sure there's an official OpenBuilds video so you can see if anything's different.

    CNC is hard. The maker hobbyist industry usually makes it look easier than it is to sell products. On the other hand, buying products with no official affiliation to the designers, no aftermarket support, of unknown quality, is usually a good way to make it harder than it needs to be.
     
    Mob1810 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    The OpenBuilds Team is dedicated helping you to Dream it - Build it - Share it! Collaborate on our forums and be sure to visit the Part Store for all your Maker needs.


    [email protected]

  • Follow us on Instagram

  • Like us on Facebook

  • Support Open Source FairShare Program!

    OpenBuilds FairShare Give Back Program provides resources to Open Source projects, developers and schools around the world. Invest in your future by helping others develop their future.

    Donate to Open Source
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice