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BlackBox control software randomly going to Wrong Zero location

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Stacey Miller, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. Stacey Miller

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    Hey guys, I finally have my Workbee put together. When I ran my first Hello World file,The WorkBee got about half of it right, it wrote WORLD over top of the gear logo. I thought it was just a glitch......The next one I did was half off the board I was using (like it thought the XY,Z zero location was somewhere off the board. but then it finally did one correctly. I was trying to do I sign for my wife and same thing happened, it will write over something totally random and when I hit return to zero it goes some where else. Anyone else had this problem????
    Any help with this problem would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks in ADVANCE!!!!
     
  2. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    Hi Stacey, please post your grbl settings for us to look at.
    One cause for things like this could be a big step loss situation on one axis.
    Check your set screws on all your couplers, check your wiring momentary loss of one wire connection can cause a hesitation to do this.
    Turn up your drive current, if using a blackbox turn the current up a bit and run a file cutting air (with the z up too high to reach the table and no bit) to see how it looks and sounds.
    As for the settings, rapid movements which are set too high can cause this, or acceleration too high.
    Cheers
    Gary
     
  3. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Intermittent wiring fault most likely, recheck all motor wiring

    Secondly, check mechanical side of things. Loose grubscrews on shaft couplers or loose grubscrews on pulleys.
     
  4. Stacey Miller

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    Hey Thank You for the help I will get those setting posted as soon as I can.... By the Way I have my limit switches at the rear of my machine, back by the motors and controller. Would that effect this in any way.... I was going to try changing them to the front today..... Again Thank You
     
  5. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    It would not no.
     
  6. Stacey Miller

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    OK fappreciate the help ... By the Way I have my limit switches at the rear of my machine, back by the motors and controller. I compensated for that in the software I think....Would that effect this in any way.... I was going to try changing them to the front today..... Again Thank You
     
  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    That would not cause it no. Check mechanicals and wiring as decribed above. Post the Grbl setting too.
     
  8. Stacey Miller

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    Hey Peter, I am noticing when I hit return to zero on the controller software there are 3 choices, which one should I click on? Also How do I turn up the drive current? I am assuming there is a screw ion the Black Box itself?
    Thanks again in Advance! I am thinking of resetting the straps for each Axis XYZ? would that help?
     
  9. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    docs:blackbox:currentadjustment [OpenBuilds Documentation]

    Goto Work Zero unless your intent is to check something other than where you had set Work Zero last using the SetZero buttons. Gcode jobs run in Work Coordinates too

    As mentioned above, yes, loose mechanicals can cause position to be lost. Straps, shall we assume means Belts then? If so. Check grubscrews on the pulleys, add locktite to motor shaft. Make sure there is a Grubscrew on the Flat of the D shapes shaft. Pull bell tight to about 12kg of pull force

    So we can check that you have sane settings. Incorrect acceleration and max feedrate settings can cause stalling
     
  10. Stacey Miller

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    Hello Gary, I finally got screen shots of my settings.... Thanks again for your help! I am uoloading my settings for you to look at there are a bunch!!!! but I took screen shots of everything. Again Thank You


    My Machine uses lead screws on everything.... No Belts or straps at all I am uploading my setting for you to check as well!!!
     

    Attached Files:

    #10 Stacey Miller, Nov 28, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2020
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Your $110 (X axis max feedrate) is 10,000 - quite high - dial that down to 5000
    Your screenshots doesn't seem to have $111-112 but check them accordingly, Y ($111) set to 4000-5000 too (heavier gantry, so try 4000). Your Z axis ($112) max rate can be set to about 2500

    Refer to gnea/grbl for more info

    So out of curiosity, what does "straps" here
    mean then, what "straps" are you referring to? :)

    The advice stands though:
    The same concepts apply to leadscrews: Check grub screws on the Shaft Coupler, and locktite/make sure grubscrew is on the flat, etc - same as pulley - if the leadscrew or motor shaft is slipping in the coupler, you will loose position too


    PS: There's a Backup Settings button right at the top, that dumps it out to a nice easy to upload text file (; easier to make, and easier to read than Screenshots

    upload_2020-11-28_19-2-22.png
     
  12. Stacey Miller

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    Hey Peter Thank You So Much will get on that ASAP!
     
    Peter Van Der Walt likes this.
  13. Stacey Miller

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    Hi Again Peter,
    I have attached a couple of photos showing how my machine is changing the zero position. When I set the zero position it was about 1/2 inch side the corner of this board. as you can see when it wrote the World letters thaeynare not on the board. I have checked all the couplings and wiring. Is there a position adjustment for the zero position??? Should I re-do my steps per mm? 20201128_114444.jpg 20201128_114530.jpg 20201128_114530.jpg
     
  14. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Do you remember to setzero at the start of the run? Watch the Hello World video again :)



    Setzero tells the machine where the Stock is locates.
    Did you dial back those speeds yet - too high and the motors stall out during seek moves
     
  15. Stacey Miller

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    Yes I set zero before I begin the cut and yes I have dialed back those setting and saved before I did this run.
    1. import g code to run
    2. set zero (then actually moved the spindle around and make sure it returns to zero)
    3. hit the run button.
    I will re watch that video to make sure I m not missing anything.
     
  16. Stacey Miller

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    Also I had set that zero to about a 1/2" inside that corner of the board I was using.
     
  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    1) you set zero
    2) grbl does a rapid move (can stall if acceleration or max feedrate is too high) to the entry point
    3) it plunges down
    4) starts cutting. (Cutting forces can stall motors if current is set too low)
    5) after first entity is cut it does another rapid move (can stall during and loose position then each cut looks good, but are incorrectly positioned relative to each other)
    6) after job is done, the return to zero is another rapid move (max feedrate and acceleration appropriately set else it can stall)

    So it can ONLY be
    - didnt setzero (will just ever effect where the job starts, once it runs everything else will be correctly placed relative to each other
    - incorrect acceleration / max feedrate (will loose position during rapid moves (free air moves) between cuts
    - incorrect cutting recipe - too aggressive on the feeds in CAM - can cause machine to loose position during the cut - will typically sound bad too.
    - mechanicals - something slipping causing you to loose positions (causes all the above symptoms too, therefore we let you recheck the mechanicals first
    - loose motor wiring - also causes the same issues
    - stepper driver current setting - but more remote unless you turned it down all the way - factory default is perfect for most machines


    -
     
    #17 Peter Van Der Walt, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  18. Stacey Miller

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    OK Peter, couple of Questions.
    I have the current on the Black Box up all the way, should I back it off a little?
    I have been loading the G-Code before I set zero so it is ready to go, is that correct?
    Should I go through homing cycle before each cut or just when I turn on machine 1st time each day?
    I have been thinking of uninstalling the software and then re-installing it then do the complete setup again...., do you think that would help?
    Again Thank you for the support!
     
    #18 Stacey Miller, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2020
  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Yes, all the way up will just overheat the drivers and or motors. Halfway between is a good starting point for a leadscrew machine
    Does not matter, as long as you do setzero to where you want the origin to be before clicking Run

    Power on, and any time position was lost (after a crash, or an emergency stop, or a rapid abort, etc)

    No because this not a software problem. Its mechanical, firmware settings or user actions. First two much heavier in the likelyness scale.
     
  20. Stacey Miller

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    Hey Peter, I am attaching some photos .... the Hello World was done from the Open Builds cam software the other was done from Aspire. I have tightened all the couplings and went to every stepper motor and redone the wiring as you suggested. I am still noticing the Hello World is about 1/4" below the the zero point, which it will return there if I click on return to zero after the cut. The Aspire software returns to the zero point when it is finished.
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    The hello world looks good, no more skipping like your first post described

    The goto zero thing maybe related to the sequence of events:
    1) are you remembering to jog to where the pencil mark is first
    2) zero there (nb set Z height correctly)
    3) then run job.
    Did you add any extra move commands into OpenBuilds CAM > settings tab > settings?

    If you have Aspire, and it works, then don't bother with OB CAM - its the free alternative. You already have better then.
     
    #21 Peter Van Der Walt, Nov 29, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020

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