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5 axis CNC

Discussion in 'CNC Projects' started by Antonio Gutiérrez, May 2, 2018.

  1. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    Hello everyone I'm new in this forum and new in CNC's world, i just have take a look of the products and builds on hera and i would like to know for example if i buy the minimill or the C-beam machine set, can i add a trunnion for add 2 axes more becaue I'm looking for a 5 axis CNC and this kits looks so well
    but i dont know if its the proper way to get the machine that i need.
    can you give me some advices, thanks!
     
  2. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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  3. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    minimil is too small

    c-beam XL with (500mm z axis) is good for that (depending on the size of your trunnion you can put it on x or y)

    Good luck, took me some time to put it all together :)

    be aware of the Chinese trunnion's :D
     
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  4. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    HC. Do you think the Chinese Trunnions would be okay if you took it apart first, upgraded where needed and sorted it out before trying to use it? :rolleyes:
     
  5. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    So as i have understand, i want a machine of 5 axis to cut alluminium in 3d but if buil it by the way that you say, i want also ti know if i remove the trunnion how to do for run it in 3 axis for flat pieces.
    About hardware i need:
    1 C-beam xl machine (950€)
    2 bosch colt router spindle (90€)
    3 driver board (what about this, can you explain about which options to choose, features, etc...)
    How do you connect the steppers if you use 3 or 5 axis?
    4 trunnion (i just know chinese ones: 350€)
    5 24v 20a power supply (50€)

    But the most important part, once i get all the stuff to mount what abot software because i recently got Solidworks for 3d design, Mastercam to machining strategy and g-code generation, and Mach3 for control the machine motors.

    Can you talk about this final part and about the compatibility with the driver/break board and everything
    Im completely new and the price of all this stuff is so high to doesnt have a good planification
     
  6. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    Maybe we should ask the seller how he reinforced the trunnion that he use to cut 5x alluminium. :)
    i can see in his latest video that he ad 2 screws (to keep the shaft/ball bearing in place ? :) also the belt is tighten up )

    Think my trunnion has worked - 10h & my backslash was getting bigger & bigger. Caused by the belt (the one that moves the full table)
    Now i know it works, Think to replace it by a worm-gear. :) $_$

    keep an eye on the last 2 seconds, no i don't think the video is hanging :D
     
  7. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    Lot of Q,
    How big are the pieces you want to make ?

    aluminium: mmm... so far i only done few pieces soft wood, and need already new pieces for my chinese trunnion.

    You have to change nothing to go from 5 to 3 axis (only remove the trunnion) stepper connections stay the same.

    if you have Mach3 > look for a 6 axis controller board that has mach3 plugins. (read first allot of it @ Machsupport Forum - Index )

    Take your time to look/read around before buying anything !
     
  8. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    Which problem did you had with your chinese trunnion and what pieces did you order to upgrade it? Because i dont know where to by another one except chinese on aliexpress
    I dont understand in the video which two screws do you mind?
    How do you tight up the belts on this kind of trunnion?

    I would use it for medium size (10-15cm) when using 5 axis, and bigger ones (50cm) when using 3 axis... always for hobby purpose
     
  9. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    two screws are only on the aluminium & this video (wood) (are not on the model you buy)
    @0.09 see the ball bearing :) also not include :)
    the big belt you can easy tighten like in the video, but the small one is not so easy (i used 2 holes of the stepper to ad a wheel)

     
  10. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    So you mean that this trunnion comes without this both bearings and we should add this two screws to fix it in order to upgrade the trunnion? But the default offset bring the space for put here the bearings or you have to open the spaces by youself? Which is the problem of this bearings and scews? Sorry for not understand
    Why do you said that your trunnion experimented a lot of backlash after 10 hours? What were the effects?
    Thank you a lot for your attention and advices, really, thank you!
     

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  11. HC.Carbo

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    mmm, maybe i should put the trunnion back together & make a little video. :)

    i can only guess that the screws just keep the bearings in place :)

    after -10h when i turned the table +90° it felt just back down :D Game over for the small belt ! (tighten up only helps very little time)

    bad belts (think this is the mean trouble maker)

    i should put a new one on and see what happens :) but have to find them first: jiebao tr b120mxl (243.84mm) 10mm

    if i have time this weekend will take pictures from all pieces.
     
  12. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    So if the problem of chinese Trunnions are the belts maybe it can be solved just putting a better quality ones.
    I though that the problem of these trunnions was the deformation of some parts like bearing due to the force of the spindle bur.
    About screws i guess too is just a handy solution for keep the bearing in place while working.
    Plese if you can send us some pictures, thanks!

    About the softwares again, can you comment us how do you work with electronics and CAM software? Do you use Mach3 for control the machine?

    Thank you very much again!
     
  13. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    HC.
    Probably speaking complete twaddle here, but what about a short drive screw with a small gearbox, and do away with the belts? :rolleyes:
    Just a thought. :)
     
  14. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    what i'm going to do, will replace that side with a 4th axis worm drive.
     
  15. HC.Carbo

    HC.Carbo Veteran
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    i'm using mach4 with fusion360 & using generic post's to generate the g-codes.
    (look @ the pocketnc tutorials to see how you setup your cam)
    My controller board has a mach3/4 plugin. (so far only one issue, probing isn't working good)


    the 3 shaft screw's should be the same no ? :D
    the shafts are little to small vs bearings
    something + i have absolute no backslash/play on the mid table (y) :)
    [​IMG]
     

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  16. HC.Carbo

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    this was just the beginning,
     
  17. HC.Carbo

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    put it all back together without belt's,
    the play is minimal, so the base is +- acceptable :)
    So the weak points: belt/gear & how it is attached to the table.
     
  18. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    So your advice to buy the chinese trunnions is to order also a better belts and bearings? Because in the end you solved the backlash issue...
    About control board what do you think about these? And why did you said that may dont works? Should you plug the bosch spindle motor to the controlboard and set it in Mach?
    And about your experience making metal pieces, how was the accuracy?

    And appart of all, have you ever done sone pieces in two operations? This is, upsidedown the piece to make the machine work in the face that in the first machining process was unaccessible to the bur?
     

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  19. HC.Carbo

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    I advise nothing! no i solved so far nothing, maybe a better belt will hold longer..

    I started this also as a noob in cnc.
    Spend allot of time watching tut's how things work.
    Again, read the mach forum on the controller you interested in. (they have all + & - )


    Never be my aim to cut anything like Alluminnium! (so, look for guys that cut allu on YTube with a bosh spindle)
    Bought the (cheap)trunniion to see if my setup would work.
    My aim was to make a affordable 5 axis. (-6000$ > pocketnc)
    Still far away from 6k, but not yet there.

    My work so far: indexing & simultaneous 5x...the bunny has +7 operations
    HC_n_Carbo
     
  20. HC.Carbo

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    ah, new belt on his way.
    will let you know if it works smooth again :)
    (also an 4th axis wormdrive in the mailbox...)

    meanwhile in China :)
    a new table every cut ? :D ;D
    Really watched at these (cheap) models to buy, but so big/heavy. o_O

     
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  21. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    Thats what i mean when i asked by two operation machining process
    1st operation top face
    2nd operation (upsidedown) bottom face
     
  22. HC.Carbo

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    :) you don't need 5x for that.
    There are tricks (see your video) using indexing holes. (it take some time to figure it out :) )

    But, on a 5x machine you can set it on one side, cut front(Top face) & back(bottom face)
    If you looked to my video (bunny) done a top,front,back,left&right face in one go.
    Very important is that your mid point(zero) is set correctly. On a 5x table your zero = the midpoint of rotation's.
     
  23. Antonio Gutiérrez

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    The thing is, in 5 axis there is always one face that remains intact, because is not a 3d cutting machine, but iwas thinking about the CAM and all the process from the CAM desing to put your machine to work and watching some tutorial but i dont understand if the rotation of the axis 4 and 5 (A and B) of the trunnion are set on the CAM software (Fusion 360 or Mastercam etc) or if all the movement of all axes are automatically managed by Mach3 or the interface board.
    Do you know some tutorial about this?
    About machining process stem by step from the Cam
    In Mach3 forum i didnt fuounf anything

    Thank you again
     
  24. HC.Carbo

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    that is the most easy thing thing on the whole process :)
    cam is setup (Z pointed up)
    Then you do a front face > that face is pointed to the Z (mill) the post processor do the math.
    Mach3 does only what your cam says :)

    watch these tuts carefully, you will get it,
    i'f learned allot from these,
    the only difference btw my trunnion is that the main cam setup z is pointed up

     
  25. HC.Carbo

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    4th, how to setup
    Same way of working,

     

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