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3Pcs NO NC Momentary Square Push Button Switch DC 24V / Clarification x Pro V3 Build

Discussion in 'General Electronics' started by Ed Zacly, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    3Pcs NO NC Momentary Square Push Button Switch DC 24V

    I am in the process of building the Schematix Ox metal CNC routing system which uses the X Pro board from Sparks Concepts..


    Can somebody provide clarification on how to hook up Momentary switches ...My question below for clarification in Red Bold

    Note: I found this explanation on how to hook these switches up on the Inventables website:<The build is on!> I have edited some of it to clarify


    upload_2017-12-16_17-42-13.png

    Each button has five connection points that are clearly marked, you need 4 of them to make them work properly.

    2 pins are marked: "-" and "+" - these are for the 24v light to keep them illuminated. I used a terminal strip inside my enclosure to break out all of the voltages for easy access. But, just as easy to add a wire from the pos and gnd of the power supply.

    With respect to: " But just as easy to add a wire from the pos and the gnd of the power supply" Does he mean:

    A) That one wire goes to the + (positive) and the second wire goes to (as per the symbol below) to ground.

    upload_2017-12-16_17-33-38.png

    B) That one wire goes to the +(positive) and that the other wire goes to - (negative)?


    I think "A" is the correct answer but I just want to confirm...

    The three center pins are marked, "NC" - normally closed, "NO" - normally opened, and "C" - common.

    Make a connection between the "C" - common connection of the button and GND pin. (Again, I used terminal strips inside the enclosure to make wiring much easier)

    Make a connection between the "NO" - normally open connection and the:

    A2 (Green Button- Cycle Start/Resume)

    A1 (Yellow Button- Feed Hold)

    A0 (Red Button- Reset/Abort)



    upload_2017-12-16_17-41-0.png
     

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    #1 Ed Zacly, Dec 15, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  2. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    The reason they are connecting it to "ground" is because they're using an arduino. It's not the same as AC earth ground. It's basically DC negative.
    To power the lights you'll connect it to the + and - of the DC supply.

    The signal voltage will be going through the switch on a separate circuit.

    I think the xpro will have low voltage outputs which youll take to the switchs NO and switch it to the signal ground on the xpro when the switch is pressed.

    joe
     
  3. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    That's great, that's basically the way I set it up, the xPro (pick below) uses the same naming convention for A0 A1 & A2 as the arduino.

    Attached: Wire Diagram Dec 2017 Rev 03 - I updated the wire diagram to show the capacitors , Btw, It was done in Corel which is fairly easy to use & great for dragging in pic's and easy to edit, it was the only way I could visualize all this....I have a small brain.

    I am now able to proceed.. with clarity


    Thanks again Joe.. I will let you know how it goes...


    Regards,

    Ed Zac
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Greetings Joe,

    I have a couple more questions about best practices when wiring up my controller box


    Limit switches

    I have 2 core shielded wire for my limit switches however I'm using two pin aviation plugs that don't accommodate a ground..Should I use a 3 or 4 pin aviation plug so that I can run the shielding that's in the wire to ground?

    If so which ground, the Power In or the x-pro board ground?


    Power in

    I'm running a power cord down on the corner of the case on the back panel ..See illustration below, the cord (in Red) will be situated in the corner along the back panel riding right next to the aviation plugs for the stepper Motors is there any issue here with interference? should I put the Power in wiring someplace else, the wire is from a computer plug that I'm cannibalizing and is not shielded


    upload_2017-12-20_16-46-55.png


    I have attached revised drawing that better reflects the current layout in the case..



    Thanks & Regards
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Use a 3 or 4 pin and tie them to the AC power in gound. Carry the ground in from the AC power and ground the case too. Might have to scrape a little paint.

    The power is inside the case right?
    I think you'll be okay running that near the motor power cables because they are perpendicular to each other.
     
  6. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Hi Joe,

    As always; Thank you for your input, hopefully this will help somebody else with respect to best practices associated with the xPro by Spark Concepts.

    Please see Spark Concepts xPro V3 Wire Diagram Dec 2017 Rev 05, attached.

    The drawing is now getting a bit crowded with the addition of a 12 volt requirement to run the fan, as per your suggestion:

    1. I added the ground to the AC power (in) which in turn will be grounded to the case via a bare metal point.
    2. as per the image below, the ground from shield is denoted by the ground symbol and a dotted line..

    upload_2017-12-21_7-5-34.png


    Question: Does the XPro Board itself ground need to be grounded to anything ? I have it sitting on 4 plastic standoff's so the board itself is isolated..


    Best Regards, Ed Zac
     

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  7. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    The board should be isolated from AC. Four plastic standoffs is good.

    On another note. Motor cables can get a shield too.
    Limits tend to get a shield loop and motors get shield tied to ground at one end.
    I wouldn't worry too much more at this point for a couple of reasons.
    Single end shielding should work fine with your dry contact limit setup plus you're using caps.
    And, plenty of people use the motors unshielded without problems. Myself included.
    I ran shielding for them and just never terminated the shielding.
    So, if your motors are acting funny later on then you know shielding might help.
     
    Ed Zacly likes this.
  8. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    You should be able to find a fan in other DC voltages.
     
  9. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Noted..

    • I can easily up grade the aircraft plugs for the motors if & when necessary ...
    • I will look for a 24 V fan... wow that would be way easier... thanks!

    Again as always thank you for your time, you have had an impact on my project..

    Best Regards & Season’s Greetings

    Ed Zacarias
     
  10. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Hi Joe,

    I found a F24 volt computer Fan the only problem was that it cost $ 15.00 so I opted to get a step down module it was around $8.00 and I had an extra 4 place terminal hanging around ...I figured that I might need to run something else latter that might need a 12 Volt power supply...

    I need to know if this set up is compatible AMP wise?

    VMA404 DC - DC ADJUSTABLE VOLTAGE STEP DOWN MODULE LM2596S


    https://www.velleman.eu/downloads/29/vma404_a4v01.pdf

    input voltage: 3-40 VDC
    output voltage:1.25 - 35 VDC
    max. input current 2.5 A
    chip:LM2596S
    dimensions:49 x 26 x 12 mm

    upload_2017-12-22_12-31-52.png

    Power Supply

    24V/14.6A Power Supply

    24V 14.6A
    2 DC Outputs
    Built in cooling fan
    88% Efficiency
    215mm(~8.50") x 115mm(~4.5") x 30mm(~1.25")
    Voltage select switch 110v - 220v
    UL 60950-1 Approved

    upload_2017-12-22_12-30-12.png



    Regards,

    Ed Zac
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I'm not sure if that'll work or if current will rush in and damage it.
     
  12. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    No problem,.. I will do some more research... thank you just the same though..
     
  13. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Hi Joe,

    If this idea does not work then I will track down a 24 Volt fan...it's little bit of hack...I wanted to know what you thought...


    I have one of these power supplies it's from my junk pile...

    upload_2017-12-22_21-6-52.png


    You'll see that it's rated at 12 volts - 2 amps



    The fans that I have listed below are all rated 12 volts and are at a variety of amps meaning that in terms of amps that's what they draw.... so if I have a power supply That's rated at 2 amps it should be sufficient to drive the fan.... would that be a correct assumption on my part?

    My thinking is I could take the board out of this power supply and wire it into my setup and then hook my fan up to it... Your thoughts ?

    Available Fans from my stockpile

    12V 1.56 A
    12V .85 A
    12V .16 A
    12V .14 A


    Regards,

    Ed Zac
     
  14. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    That'll definitely work. I did something similar in my control cab to power my smoother stepper. Just tie that in with your AC power.
     
  15. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Thank you... good to know that I'm occasionally connecting the dots ... somewhere...
     
  16. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Season's Greetings Joe,


    Well ... I started the wiring from the back plug and have wired to the primary terminal block, from there I've attached the 24 volt and the 48 volt power supplies, I am now retrofitting the 12 volt power supply from my junk pile for the fan.


    Once I've completed the the basic hook up I will switch it on and test all three of the power supplies for output and calibrate if necessary, If that checks out I will finish wiring everything else...


    I have a couple of rudimentary questions to ask...


    1. The plug in the back requires a fuse.... 10A 250v Inlet Module Plug Power Socket what Amp fuse do you recommend? Power Supplies: 24 V / 14.6 Amps - 48 V / 8.3 Amps
    2. Next...the 12 volt power supply for the fan has two red wires that were attached to the plug it would appear that I could hook it up without being concerned about what wire goes where... or do I have to try to determine which lead is hot?


    upload_2017-12-28_20-37-57.png

    upload_2017-12-28_20-48-11.png

    Thank you as always & Regards,

    Ed Zac
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    The power socket is rated 10 amps. So a 10 amp fuse.
    Did you tear apart that DC transformer?
    Plug the fan in. If it rotates the wrong way then swap the pair. You can also use a meter to determine current direction.
     
  18. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Understood: 10 Amp Fuse

    Below: This is the DC Transformer 12 volts - 2 amps

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Whats the -WWW- symbol mean ? the other is an exclamation mark (see pic above)


    Thank you & Regards,

    Ed Zac
     
  19. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I say 10 because I'm assuming that the socket components might not be rated to handle more than that. However, after some googling it seems the 15 and 20 amp versions look identical on the outside, so maybe they just use a higher buss fuse.
    If they start popping then try a 15A fuse.
    Up to you if you want to get another power switch. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.

    A www is for a resistor. That is a thermistor. likely to reduce in rush current when it's first plugged in. It's resistance goes down when it heats up a little.

    Instead of tearing that transformer apart you should just keep it together and install it like that. To connect the AC just use 2 female push on terminal connectors right to the male plug prongs on the transformer. Then grab the DC from the black output wires to your fan.
     
  20. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    I live in a bit of a rural area, as such my local small town hardware store did not have this size & type, so I contacted SMW3D on the fuse spec, . it's a bit of a specialty fuse and I have to travel a bit to go get it..so I wanted to make sure, I tracked it down to a to that is about a half hour away..

    Fuse Spec: 19.62mm long x 5.06mm in diameter. 10a 250v SFA style fuses.


    Hmmm... Nothing like blunt force trauma.,. I already gutted that particular transformer, ... but I have a second one (in waiting) that will not suffer the same fate.. thanks to your suggestion..


    Um..to my embarrassment, I found some errors in my previous drawing which I have now corrected - As of this iteration (Rev: 07) all the wiring has been color corrected so that I can keep it straight in my head.. At your convenience can I ask you to take a second look at it to validate, I am only concerned about the power in and it's associated distribution.. I have included a color coded legend on the drawing for clarity and to facilitate peer review.

    Thanks & Regards

    Ed Zac
     

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  21. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    You shouldn't have to ground the DC fan.
    Your colors are flipflopped off the 24v supply.
    Use red and black for DC just like an auto.
     
  22. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Greetings Joe,


    I hope you had a happy New Year..


    Given that I reside in Canada the color coding here is black white and green...I am from the U.S. I grew up Connecticut and I remember red and black being the principal color code for DC applications...

    From <https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/reference/chpt-2/wiring-color-codes/>

    Canada: Canadian wiring is governed by the CEC (Canadian Electric Code). See Table below. The protective ground is green or green with yellow stripe. The neutral is white, the hot (live or active) single phase wires are black , and red in the case of a second active. Three-phase lines are red, black, and blue.

    Canada AC power circuit wiring color codes.

    upload_2018-1-3_8-3-26.png
    In any event ..thanks to your help I managed to get all of my basic connections done and tested everything one at a time in sequence, everything works fine I now have power distributed within the build, this morning I installed the x-pro board and tested it.I am now going to proceed with making all internal connections to the aviation panel mount plugs, once I do that I will update the firmware on the X pro board..

    Apparently the xPro board has a plug for the fan, however the fan does not run when the board is powered up ..I will have to contact Spark Concepts or consult their forum, I thought the fan would have been on continuously, I will still use the 12 Volt power supply as I anticipate adding a second fan given that I have two power supplies and the speed control in a mini tower.. which is about a third smaller when compared to a regular computer case, given the small case size I want to ensure good air circulation..

    Question...

    I have some un-shielded 22 AWG 7 wire and I was thinking of using it for the control box.. would it be okay to use given that it isn't shielded ...it's running separate from everything else... it's free standing, the control box is the handheld unit that has the pause and resume button on it.
    Note: The below configuration shows 8 wires consisting of two 4 wire shielded lengths going into the control box - I would like to use the the 7 wire non-shielded.

    upload_2018-1-3_8-18-37.png


    Thank you & Regards,

    Ed Zac
     
    #22 Ed Zacly, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
    MaryD likes this.
  23. GrayUK

    GrayUK The Secret of Life is ..... Choice!
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    You really would have thought that by the year 2018 all countries would have got their electrical act together and agreed a logical colour scheme.
    I go for:
    POSITIVE is HOT- NEGATIVE is COLD- EARTH is Green and pleasant land.
    Now that's not too hard to remember and grasp.
    Why do they have to confuse everyone if they can?
     
  24. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I wasn't talking about your AC colors. I said the DC colors were wrong. All of the DC positives coming off the supplies were white instead of red. As long as you know what goes where it doesn't matter.
    We use white green and black too.
    The 22awg unshielded should be fine.
     
  25. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Hi Joe,

    Here is my box build, Its not a full size PC tower..so it's tight as I am using a mini tower..... CASE ROSEWILL Micro ATX Mini Tower Computer Case - SRM-01 - Newegg.ca

    Bear in mind, I have no experience with building anything electronic.... plugged it in every time I added something, thankfully I had no issues. I have to say that learning to solder was a challenge... I bought myself a nice little Weller WES51 that was a real pleasure to use..

    [​IMG]


    Follow Up - Well I took your advice (see attached PDF drawing) and replaced all the black and white wiring with red and black for DC Power, I used Black and White for the AC in and up to the terminal and the power supply ...

    Next - Please comment on line items 1, 2

    1. Limit Switch grounding strategy to power supply ground, as it goes I have two grounding points in this build, one for the xPro Board and one for the power supplies.. to me it would make more sense to ground to the power supply..
    2. Gantry Span - I am planning a 39.5 inch span / width need to know is this viable ? https://openbuilds.com/threads/ox-upgrade-kit.8523/page-2 I am incorporating Daz the Gas Ox Upgrade Kit 06-05-2017 where I have a taller gantry with the lead screw on top Deluxe 2" Taller Gantry Plate Set for the OX CNC (seen at Openbuilds) | eBay

    Things left to do:
    1. Ground the three Limit switches to the ground from the power supply, (that's those loose wires coming off the cables below)
    2. Confirm 39.5 inch span / width as viable
    3. Start the assembly of the actual OX Metal / Daz the Gas CNC router
    4. Run cables & make final connections

    BTW....I wanted to say thank you on two counts...first for responding to begin with and second for your patience, I wanted you to know that I really appreciated it ....I would not have gotten this far with out your input..


    [​IMG]




    [​IMG]



    BTW.......I plan to upgrade my spindle and add this tool changer after I do some damage... after the learning curve.


    HF-Spindle 500 Watt (Includes 1/4" and 1/8" Collets) - Stepcraft Inc.

    [​IMG]



    <https://stepcraft.us/product/automatic-tool-changer/>

    [​IMG]


    Regards,

    Ed Zac

     

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  26. deano

    deano New
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    Hi, good work with your build!
    I have the same latching buttons as yourself.
    though I'am having problems wiring them up!
    Do you have a photo or wiring diagram for buttons,
    Thanks!
     
  27. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Greetings Deano,

    See attached diagram.. it has notes for the pin out for the switches ... look at the bottom of your switches with a magnifying glass and note +NC NO C - then look at my drawing, my drawing matches the pin order as per the +NC NO C - .. the color codes for the wires are not relevant they can be whatever color you want as long as your are consistent...

    Let me know if you have any questions ...

    Regards,

    Ed
     

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  28. deano

    deano New
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    Hi Ed, thanks for reply, the wiring diagram you made is helpful.
    my problem is my build is a bit different from your diagram,
    All my buttons / switches are Led NO NC Momentary Square Push Button Switch DC 24V.
    my Build is similar to the sparks concepts wiring diagram.
    The main difference is i don't know how to wire up all the same buttons in a series/ together.
    The sparks concepts wiring diagram, shows the buttons with only 2 pins and mine have the 5 pins like yours.
    Do you know how i can wire up all 4 buttons, play, pause, stop and on
    using 5 pin Led Momentary / latching buttons?
    Thanks again for your help!
     

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  29. Ed Zacly

    Ed Zacly Well-Known
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    Hi Deano,


    LED does not make a difference ...The principle is essentially the same, my diagram shows shows the pin order and where to run the wire... +NC NO C - is the order of the pins when looking at the drawing....with this application you don't use all five pins..as per my drawing, I am using only 4 out of 5 wires when I hit the yellow button my system pauses with out loss of position when I hit the green it resumes...

    Regards Ed,
     
  30. deano

    deano New
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    Thanks again Ed for your reply,
    i'm just really bad with wiring, the diagram I have got from sparks concepts got me this far.
    But the diagram does not help me with the switches I have.
    I have draw up a diagram on photoshop, I was hoping you could help me connect the dots.
    hopefully with this wiring diagram completed this could help out other people like myself,
    (whose rubbish with wiring, and can only follow a plan, Ha :)
    Just need to know e.g. Black wire to C and Red wire to NC for example.
    Cheers Ed.
     

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    #30 deano, May 25, 2018
    Last edited: May 25, 2018

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