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2x4 Ox with Vac table

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Hytech2k, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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  2. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    I like the addition of the vacuum table ... and of its build.
     
  3. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    The vacuum table is going to be a valuable addition for our operation. We currently screw our blanks down to the spoilboard on our larger machine and it doesn't take long before the spoilboard is pretty tore up. Hopefully this will help cure that problem.
     
  4. slittle

    slittle Journeyman
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    Your building this at the perfect time for me as I want a vacuum table and aiming for a 2x4 useable table. look forward to your build.
     
  5. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    We'll be starting the base table today, i'll be posting photos over the weekend, stay tuned !
     
    #5 Hytech2k, Nov 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  6. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    Like the looks of that base ... Never got around to adding the caster on mine, not that I need to move it that much or more than a couple of feet to make way for the wife's car in the garage (winter is coming !) I know, wait until it makes chips, eh?
     
  7. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    Thanks, it's cost effective. On down the road when I can take one machine offline after our winter rush, i'll be having a local welder build bases for both machines out of 2x2 and 2x3 steel stock. Here in Florida the humidity creates alot of havoc with wood expansion and warping.

    " I know, wait until it makes chips, eh?"

    The wife might not think highly of her car covered in a different type of snow !! ;)
     
  8. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    After working with aluminum, I could always point out : "Just think of it, Honey ... you always wanted a sparkly car !" :duh:
     
  9. lodom

    lodom New
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    Hi,
    Sorry for my english, I'm french.
    Hytech2k, in your picture, I see another CNC behind. It look's like 4 x 8 joe's CNC. At the beginning, I wanted to build it but I discovered openbuilds and v-slot. Do you think v-slot + Xtreme Solid V Wheel + belt are strong enough for a 4 x 8 CNC ? Of course, with goods stepper motors and a strong table under
    Thanks for your answer
     
  10. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    Your right, it is a Joes CNC Evo... 5' x 9'

    In my opinion after running a much larger machine with rack and pinion no. The belts would be undersized for that large of a machine. If maybe it was just moving a laser head or extruder head then yes but the side forces by using a spindle/router and the span of the gantry would flex, the extrusions are very lightweight. IMHO I feel the max would be about a 2 x 4 machine, unless you redesign it for either larger belts or rack and pinion plus run double or triple 2060 across the gantry.
     
  11. lodom

    lodom New
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    For the gantry (4' or 5'), I thought 2 x 20*60 v-slot with an iron "u" in the middle like that :
    (joes cnc hybrid)
    For the Y axis, fix it on the side of an iron frame. But my worry is the belt. I would prefer pinion and rack but it's very difficult to find it at a good price in France and CNCRouterpart is very far for the shipping... And I have a seller in France for the v-slot system
     
  12. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    That's a good way to stiffen the gantry, my Y rails are bolted to 2.5 x 2.5" 1/4" angle iron then bolted to the bed. Seems pretty stiff. As for the belts, that's alot of gantry weight to move, your acceleration, feeds and rapid speeds would have to be "gentle", as that channel iron is heavy. I was looking into maybe redesigning the way the belt was routed on the plates in order to use a larger belt. It seems the limiting factor is the belt running under the wheels and in the v slot groove. I might redraw the plates and make them just a touch larger so in order to use idler pulleys and reroute the belt above the wheels. Then you could run a 3/8, 1/2, even possibly a 3/4" belt. A gantry with channel iron is also alot of weight for nema 23 motors, the fellow in the video is running the CNCrouterparts drives that belt reduce at a 2-1 ratio for the motors, essentially doubling the torque. Nema 23 direct drive might be an issue. Also the GT3 belt is a neoprene belt with fiberglass cords, a better option would be a urethane belt with kevlar cords, I just haven't been able to locate one in that size yet, but if I go up to 3/8 and above it's available through McMaster Carr .

    Anyways these are just my opinions, i'll see what I can do with a 2 x 4 machine then plan upgrades from there.
     
  13. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Great build. I'm almost certain the Ridgid shop vac will be more than enough for a 2 x 4 table as well as 3mm gt3 belts.

    Those electronics are nice and that electronics box is slick.

    Any reason you chose the 611? I've been spindle shopping and am pretty undecided. Any forum discussion links would be appreciated.
     
  14. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    Thanks !! I think the shop vac will work and have already started resigning the plates to reroute the belts in order to use a 3/8 kevlar belt if necessary. I chose the 611 because alot of people says it's pretty durable plus the price was hard to beat, $79.00 free shipping on Amazon, search for DNP611. I do alot of work using 1/4 and 1/8" bits and use Precision collets from http://www.precisebits.com, they have collets down to 1/8 for the 611. Not available in both those sizes for the other routers, only adapters which I won't use.
     
    #14 Hytech2k, Nov 15, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  15. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Great update!!
    We have a Dewalt 611 at work as well as a bunch of other Dewalt tools and they like punishment.

    I'm not a fan of not being able to adjust spindle speed from the software side, so I'm pretty split at the moment on spindle selection. Using a TinyG I don't think controlling spindle speed on a trim router is an option for me, so I think I'll start out with one of those 450W chinese spindles until it breaks down. At which point I'll cough up the dough for something water cooled with a VFD.

    There are ER11 collet packages on amazon for about $25-$30. http://www.amazon.com/Spring-Collet-Engraving-Machine-milling/dp/B00G9X6TWA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416709948&sr=8-1&keywords=er11 collets
    Don't know how good they are, but worth a shot.

    You're dust and shavings problem: I thought about placing a length of lexan or plexi along each rail too.
    What about milling shields out of plexi or lexan, heat bending them, then attaching to the gantry plates to cover the wheel section, and placing 4 brushes on the V-slot ahead of the wheels? Just a thought.

    A few questions if you don't mind:

    What do you use to knock out the mill marks and how well does it turn out?

    You chose the nema 23 Z plate. Are the other holes in that for a nema 17? I'm assuming they are. Just wanted to check. I have a 17 that I picked up cheap because I was under the assumption that it'll work fine for Z. Now I'm starting to question that and my design. Thinking about beefing up the Z or at least having the ability to go heavier on the spindle in the future as I've mentioned.

    With this 1500 x 750 set-up. What is you total working area?

    Again, thanks for the update with vids.

    Joe
     
    #15 Joe Santarsiero, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  16. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    I thought about putting some shields mounted to the inside of the gantry plates but I have a feeling the sawdust will still work it's way under the belt in the unprotected areas. I believe a much better way would be relocate the belts in order to remove the problem all together. I have redesigned the side gantry plates to move the belt underneath the 2080 rail, much like "The FROG", with the exception of it won't be running in the groove of the 2080. This would allow a 3/8 or 1/2 urethane kevlar belt to be used.

    I choose my bits usually pretty carefully in order to avoid a lot of sanding and touchup work. The "cooper" sign was just was test piece, if I would have bumped the stepover to 8% on the finish cut there would be no sanding required. But sometimes i'll use my Dremel with the abrasive buffs if I need to cleanup a 3D carve.

    On the top plate on my Z I only see holes for the nema 23 but on the bottom it appears to be setup for a 17, probably a mirror image of the top one, you would have to ask Chris Laidlaw, he's the one I got these up from. I don't have any nema 17 motors to check it with. As for beefing up the Z, personally I wouldn't bother unless you beefed up the gantry. I ran a bit into the spoilboard (router off) yesterday due to operator error and the 23 drove it deeply into my spoilboard, I was amazed how much the beam flexed by the time I hit the Estop. I think alot of it was due to it being 2 separate beams, rather then 1 solid beam. But I don't think a 17 would have any trouble with a 611 or that type, if you mounted a larger heavier router I think the gantry would flex quite a bit under that load causing inconsistent cuts. I'm going to screw my 2060 together to make one solid beam, if that doesn't do the trick then I might goto 2080 and aluminum plates top and bottom and run the gantry carriage on Openrail.

    My total working area looks to be about 49" x 27.5"

    Hope this helps, if you have any more questions just ask...
     
    #16 Hytech2k, Nov 23, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  17. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    It helped. thanks
     
  18. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Like the plates with the under side mounted motors :thumbsup:
     
  19. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    Thanks, they're my revision1 prototypes. Still have to add a bit at the top to incorporate a belt tensioner and get above the gantry carriage wheels but it's coming along.
     
    #19 Hytech2k, Nov 26, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  20. SlyClockWerkz

    SlyClockWerkz Veteran
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    This looks awesome, more updates please! ;)
     
  21. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    Might have to spin off and create a new build, this one for the most part is complete. I'll update it when i'm able to put together the vacuum table just to complete the thread. Everything done to this machine now will be mods to make it stiffer and cut better. Thanks !!
     
    #21 Hytech2k, Nov 27, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  22. cliff

    cliff Well-Known
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    Hytech2k,
    Great build! Would you be willing to share your dxf or drawing file for the new gantry plates with bottom mounted belt and larger cross tubes? as shown in your jpg photo?
     
  23. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    I will be posting and sharing about the new plates in the Clydesdale CNC build. I'm not really ready to release the source files due to them being untested and only prototypes so far. After I cut them out of G10 and put them through some tests then it will be decided. Thanks for following along and be sure to follow the thread below for more updates !!

    http://www.openbuilds.com/builds/clydesdale-cnc.1428/
     
  24. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Love the new horse head carving, turned out great! :thumbsup: If my Sister saw this I would have to make one for her and all of her friends :D
    What software are you running the carvings from? The code algorithms look very smooth.
    Thanks
    Mark
     
  25. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    Thanks ! I'm using Vectric Aspire to create G-code and Mach 3 for machine control. The graphic was purchased from Vector Art 3D. IMHO for good detail nothing beats tapered ball nose carving bits. Mine are mostly from Precise Bits, but Amana (Toolstoday) makes some nice ones as does Beckwith Decor Products.

    That carving was done with a 1/16th tapered ball nose spindle speed of 16k feed 30ipm 8% stepover at the full DOC for the graphic. No rough cut... Cut across the grain into Lowes Select Pine.

    The Ox has alot of potential, with a few upgrades to make it a bit more rigid I should be able to increase the DOC slightly and and possibly double the feed speeds. I think it will make a great addition to my shop !! Thanks for the design !
     
    Nick W and Joe Santarsiero like this.
  26. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Is it possible to take out the 20 x 80 between your router mount and the large openbuild plate completely or am I missing something?
     
  27. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    The mount I purchased from Chris is setup to mount to 2060 and apparently that plate isn't... I could only get 2 holes on one side or the other to line up... But it has holes for 2080 so I ordered a new router mount back plate from Chris with 2080 spaced holes and bolted that extrusion there to give me some more clearance for my dust shoe and router.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Plus I like the flexibility of being able to adjust the mount up or down by loosening 4 bolts on the front of the mount rather then disassembling the z carriage to get and bolts between the x beam and front plate.

    Sorry about the blurry photos had to take them while it was running..... :)
     

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