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OXBear

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Bear, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Bear published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
  2. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    Sounds like myOX on an even bigger scale. Great to see I'm not alone heading for larger than the norm travel in X, Y and Z.

    If you have a Princess Auto nearby, check out the split cable loom they have for sale (at least at this end of Canada). 25' for 1/4" at only 4.99$. They have many diameters, price increasing along the way. But still way cheaper than what I could get from the Internet (with shipping, etc.)

    I really need to get my BOM proper to post, eh ?
     
    Bear likes this.
  3. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    A heads up as I'm going through it now : the X grantry plates will need to be reworked, especially the front one to give your Z a sturdy stance. I'm off to SketchUP to play with a few ideas already mentioned to Mark and a few others. I will need myOX in a functional state to bring to life my ideas ... Looking forward to yours.
     
  4. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Hey Serge, Thanks for the heads up on the princess auto special.
    http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/...1-4-in-x-25-ft-Split-Flex-Wire-Loom/8209249.p
    I love that store but I always choke on the fumes when I first walk in. There is some serious off gassing happening at my local store, feel bad for the folks working there.

    What cables are you using the cable loom for specifically? I was going to look into something just like that with shielding maybe. Not sure if it matters but I have proximity sensors that will be sensitive electricity running in the other cables.
     
  5. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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  6. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    Check out the few pics I posted in my build (myOX).

    I run the far Y stepper wiring through the X V-slot so it's out of sight. The X and Z wiring runs through loom, each in their own with both running parallel in a ... what's it called ... chain track ? The one I got off Amazon is a bit small, just enough room for the two 1/4" loom. I'm still scratching my head as to how I will run the wiring for the limit switches as they most likely are the ones which will be sensitive to interference. I have the AC cord of router zip tied to the "chain track". Wish I went for a wider version which opens along it's length.
     
  7. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    I received my aluminum extrusions yesterday shipped from inside Canada and many of them were bent.

    Has this been a common experience for other builders?

    I contacted the sender and he said that warping around 5mm over 1500mm was normal.
    Also my package was clearly dropped in shipment as one corner of the 80x20 is very bent. I am thinking this is what caused the rest of the warping. I have no experience with ordering aluminum extrusion and would appreciate any comments on this. Thanks.


    upload_2014-9-26_8-59-9.png
     

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  8. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
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    It has been mentioned before, but it is not common. I guess for all the aluminium moving around out there, the damage % is really low. It is simply down to the packaging from the supplier. Mine came from Open Build direct, and was really well wrapped and strengthened with additional strips and stuff. So no problems there.
    You shouldn't accept the condition you received it in. You need to get in touch with the supplier and let him know how you feel.

    (Additionally, a mention of how the Openbuild forum is likely to hear just who bent your stuff, and the ramifications to reputation, may help. Save that to the last though!)

    I don't know about a 5mm degree of warp over 1500mm being acceptable? 1500mm is quite a short distance, in the scheme of things, to suffer that amount of deviation. No, tell them how many are unsuitable for purpose, and ask for replacement, at their cost of course! And suggest they invest, a little more in the packaging, explain it's a false economy to scrimp there.

    Gray
     
  9. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Hello Gray,

    Thanks for the reply! I guess I should have mentioned that the packaging was very robust. Seriously, it took a significant amount of effort to open the package. It was reinforced with stiff angled cardboard on all sides.

    As can be seen in the pictures above one of the corners of the 80X20 is badly bent, leading me to assume that the (quite heavy) package was dropped in transit to have had enough force to bend the aluminum that way.

    The canadian seller has been easy to get ahold of and even called me today. He is sending me replacements for the two most damaged piece but maintains that anything around 5-6mm over 1500 is "normal" due to the climate differences in shipping across canada.

    Thanks for your feed back about the 5mm standard being a bit out of wack. Its seems suspicious to me, and not correct that this is "normal".
    5mm over 1500 IS going to mess up my cutting, and I will need to change/reinforce my OX to try and get/keep it straight.

    I wonder if anyone else has had this experience or been told this by their V-slot seller.
     
    #9 Bear, Sep 26, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  10. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    Although most people forget, you should notify the shipping/transport company of the damage, especially if you see a problem before unwrapping ("as received"). It is normally done when you sign for receipt. Unfortunately, often these packages are just left on the front porch. I once received a computer monitor which stayed all day out in the sun, it had rained the day before. Lucky for me I was in town that week ...

    Of course, if the shipper does a poor job of packaging, the rough and tumble treatment received in transit will become problematic.

    I have dealt with, let's see, OpenBuild, Luther and, on Canadian side, Protodrake with no issues (other than delays due frequent out of stock situation). Shipping was done by ... USPS, UPS and Canada Post ... maybe Purolator as well - this relating to (small) V-slot shipments, so weight was easier to handle by all along the way.
     
  11. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    @Bear,

    According to a previous thread, it appears OpenBuilds considers 2mm of bow excessive based on it having been summarily replaced.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  12. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Thanks Rick that is most helpful. I am going to pass on the 2mm info to the canadian dealer I bought my v-slot from. I am fairly certain they are just buying it from Openbuilds anyways so they should probably have the same standards. I did some searching around the site before I posted my issues and couldn't find anything on other people receiving bent V-slot its amazing that it doesn't happen more often!

    I agree with you Serge but the whole package was wrapped up in gorilla tape and stiff cardboard, so there was no way to see the damage without opening it up in this case. Your comment is very valid tho to keep in mind when receiving shipments. Always inspect before you take delivery if possible.


    Also I just want to reiterate that place I bought my V-slot has been very quick to answer my emails and concerns. It has been good customers service during a ****** situation for all involved.
     
    #12 Bear, Sep 26, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  13. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    I'm trying to get into the habit of taking pictures, especially with packages coming from China : as received & being unpacked. If all is fine, it's an easy delete off the digital camera. Often, the supplier or the transport company will ask for these as proof. The fine print from transport companies usually mentions the signature means all is good unless noted with signature ... then you can't touch the package until an inspection is done... As if anyone, especially the driver, had the time to wait for someone to unpack and inspect ...

    From your pictures, the package seems heavy. If it was dropped or bounced around during transit, it is bound to get damaged and damage a few other packages along the way. Gorilla tape holds pieces together and maybe protects from scratches ... The stiff cardboard usually misses the corners. So far, all shipments of V-slot received were bubble wrapped, with double layer of cardboard wrap, sometimes also with stiff cardboard on long edges, with everything in a cardboard box. But I usually get only couple lengths at a time, so everything is relatively light as well.

    At least the seller is being understanding and doing something to help out. The pictures taken, even if after unwrapping, are helping. Depending which lengths of V-slot was damaged (corners), ask for at least a discount. Not sure if the you can adjust for the bow (ex: doubled X axis might tension back ?) In any case, ask for an RMA to return the lengths which you can't use, use the same packaging material and cheapest rate ...

    Is the bow closer to an end then the middle of lengths ? Maybe you could make a shorter OX, if that is acceptable. But then a discount would be worth getting. In addition to your V-slot, everybody sometimes need to bend a little.

    I would try to follow up with the transport company ASAP. They count on fact most people don't say anything because it will take too much time and probably lead no where anyways.
     
  14. Florian Bauereisen

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    Hi,
    in my book even 1mm is not acceptable.
    As all diversions and "play", runout of nut, rounout of your routerbit etc. adds up in the end you will never be satisfied with a 1..2..or even 5mm bent to start with.
    Imagine a large part cut where preciseness matters for ex. a rc-plane fuselage wich would be 5mm twisted - simply unflyable and thus worthless.
    Even when building for fun you are trying to build a cnc.
    Accuracy within 1/2 mm are doable even by hand -ok repeatability suffers.
    If i was you i would send it back- not to put you off - justvoiced my opinion
    good luck with your build.

    Flo
     
  15. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Hello Florian ,

    Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it. As a newbie I am not sure how high of standards I should have for these things and what I should be holding my suppliers to.

    As it stands right now the v-slot dealer is sending me two replacements for the worst damaged pieces, as he is out of stock after that and can't currently replace any more and I can continue with my build. He said if I have issues in the future he will deal with the lesser damaged pieces then once he has more stock.

    @Serge E. I did indeed call Canada Post and filled a complaint right away. Only the sender can file a claim on a damaged shipment but hopefully my complaint will help him do that.
     
  16. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    This question goes out to anyone really but I am tagging you @Rick 2.0 because you seem to know whats up.

    I typed up an update to my build that I want to add to my Build tab, but it looks like it will overwrite this whole build when I publish it. Will I loose all the content here in the discussion tab doing so?

    I want to be able to keep doing these updates to track the progress of my build, maybe there is a better place/way for me to do this?

    Here is the update:

    Update Sept 28th,2014
    I have been receiving parts over the past couple weeks and and deep into researching the electronics side of my CNC. This is most definitely the hardest part for me and the most intimidating. Everyone uses different electronic components in their builds and thus there isn't a standard list of what to buy and how to assemble it. I figure this is a good thing because its forcing me to learn (or try to) all the specifics behind what electronics need and how to properly hook them up.

    I am running a Gecko 540 for my controller, so this makes things a little easier.
    My power supply for the steppers is this:
    http://www.antekinc.com/ps-4n28-400w-28v-power-supply/

    "An unregulated power supply will be sufficient and is recommended for most applications because of its simplicity. If a motor with a large inertial load decelerates quickly it will act as an alternator and send voltage back to the drive which then sends it back to the power supply. Because many regulated power supplies feature protection circuitry this may cause the power supply to fault or reset; however, if the supply is unregulated it will simply get absorbed by the filter capacitor. "
    - http://www.geckodrive.com/step-motor-basics

    These are the steppers I am using: Wantai NEMA 23 57BYGH633
    http://www.wantmotor.com/ProductsView.asp?id=160&pid=75&sid=80

    Also a Wantai NEMA 17 42BYGHW811 for the Z axis
    http://www.wantmotor.com/ProductsView.asp?id=155&pid=80

    Currently I am trying to figure out how to connect all the right wires from my steppers to the DB9 connecters. I found this video which was super helpful:


    BUT the Wetlands guy doesn't include a resistor on his DB9 connections as shown in the this picture. [​IMG]

    I know I need to also figure out what resistors I need specific to the ratings of my steppers but I have yet to figure that part out.
     
  17. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Sorry @Bear, I'm probably the one person who can't answer the first part of your question as it is something I have never done. As for the last part, that's easy: 1K per Amp on the motors. If they are 3 Amp motors, you need a 3K resistor connected between 1 and 5 as shown in the diagram on the Gecko driver. There's more about it in step 4 in the manual.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    @Rick2.0 Thanks so much!
     
  19. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Veteran
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    When you hit the edit button underneath your build writeup and go down and click on the body section to edit, just add the update underneath what you already have in there before hitting Save Changes. No need to overwrite anything, and nothing in the build should affect the discussion as far as I'm aware. I had no problems editing my build writeup.
     
  20. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Hello @Bear

    Yes you can continue to add to your build post as much as you like.
    • You can edit the build with the Edit Build button (top right of the build)
    • Edit the section the build you want (like @Rob Taylor mentioned) by clicking in that area, such as the Body,Files,Parts list, etc.. to edit that part.
    • Save your changes from the section you made additions/changes too
    • Click the Submit the build (top right)
    • Finally click the last submit button to save it.
    You will not lose any info in the discussion and you should receive a message letting you know that your build was saved.
    You should be able to go to the build and view the updates.

    2mm over 1500 are within tolerances. Even though these are low for such a long run one of the nice things is as you build you can easily work this little bit back to square.
    Hope this helps
    Mark
     
  21. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    @Rob Taylor @kram242
    Many thanks guys. Got it sorted now, I tried it out and didn't loose anything.

    I will just attach a screenshot of the message I get so that you can see why I was worried it might overwrite the entire thread.
    Hope this benefits other users as well!
     

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  22. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Onto the next issue. My OX plates.... I had some cut at a local CNC water jet, 2 sets of the standard OX plates set as I have a friend also building a smaller OX in unison with me. Hope to see his build thread start any day now.

    The holes at the bottom of the plates for the eccentric spacers are all slightly different sizes. On one plate they feel like they will fit if I push them in hard, those holes measure pretty close to 7mm. On all the other holes for eccentric spacers there is play when I put the spacer in and they measure up to 7.61mm, over half a mm bigger.

    Is this a big issue and how have people dealt with it before?
     

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  23. BDP

    BDP Well-Known
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    @asb_79 did a run of water jet cut ox plates that turned out nicely (I bought a set) and mentioned having to run drill bits through the eccentric holes. The water jet process seems to produce a 'v' shaped kerf on 6mm plate.

    Looking at the drawing for the eccentric, it gives just under +/-0.8mm of movement. If you have eccentric holes that are 0.6mm oversize then of course you lose that +/-0.3mm from your adjustment. Personally I've found I need around 80-90% of the eccentric adjustment to get the fit snug.

    Lastly (and I'm not doubting your ability, just thought I should ask), have you measured the hole on both sides of the same plate? The kerf shape produced will give you a larger hole on one side than the other as the water jet has a conical shape to it. If it is a good fit on at least one side of the plate then you shouldn't have too many problems.
     
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  24. Serge E.

    Serge E. Master
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    The approach taken by the system is to temporarely make an updated version of the build. When you save it, the previous version needs to be replaced for all to see the updates... I was a bit taken by the message as well at first, thinking it would replace everything about the build. Having done a few updates so far, it's all working out just fine (so far). Unchanged aspects, including the discussion threads which could change as you update the rest, are not ill affected by the process.
     
  25. asb_79

    asb_79 Veteran
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    One of the side effects of waterjet cutting is the Kerf produced. If you assemble the eccentrics on the jet exit side (I think) the hole is smaller and will result in a better fit. I worked closely with the supplier I used to ensure that the holes were slightly undersized at the jet exit. This allows the correctly sized drills to be run through the plate to ensure a snug fit with the screws and eccentrics.

    If you have holes that are too large and you run out of eccentric adjustment one possible solution is to drill the 5mm holes to 9/32 and use eccentrics on the top side also (to close the gap). You'll need to take some care to set them square but it may save the plates you've had made.

    Another thing I did when I assembled my gantry's was to clamp the top row of wheels between two pieces of v-slot to ensure they were all in alignment.

    Good luck with your build.
    Anthony
     
  26. Bear

    Bear Well-Known
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    Thanks so much for your feed back asb_79, BDP and Serge E. It was very helpful!

    I have bee away for a while, but and glad to be home and back working on this project in my spare time.
    I am sure more questions will follow... What a great community here at openbuilds!
     
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