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VFD spindle versus Router

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Neil Scott, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. Neil Scott

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    Hello everyone.

    I am in the process of putting together my OB Lead Screw 1075 which will mainly be used for making things in wood, some plastics and some light aluminium milling.

    I am now looking for some advices please on what is the best route to go down on the cutting head.

    I already have a Makita R7000 End trimmer which I know I can use in the CNC but this is normally in my router table.

    Could I please ask for opinions on whats the best route to go down for a mill, go with a ER11 water cooled spindle and vfd inverter, a Makita trimmer or equivalent DEWalt, or a larger VFD spindle.

    I already own a large collection or ER11 bits which I used on my other smaller cnc so if possible would like to use them on this one but I dont know how much of a difference it will make moving up to a large bit from the current ones I use.

    My smaller machine is much lower powered and takes forever to do thing but it does work well.

    I have heard that the larger 2.5kw spindles are up to 5 kilos in weight which is possibly to heavy for the gantry so I am concerned on the weight limit and spindle/mill not being in parallel to the work surface etc.

    I know the water cooled machines are quieter than the brush mills but by the time you add extraction noise etc does it make a huge difference? the inverters dont need brushes replacing whereas 5 or 6 hours use on a Makita on a regular basis is going to wear on the bearings, brushes and general possible overheating?

    What do you suggest please, I have the budget for either another router or the 1.5kw spindles just not sure on collet size and generally what is best route really.

    The CNC will use the new OB black box controller and all electrics are planned to be in a self contained wall cabinet. ( apart from the Inverter if I go that way)

    All comments welcome please and Happy New Year to the OB community which is a great place. Thank you all.
     
  2. Sk8nmike

    Sk8nmike New
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    A water cooled spindle is always the best way to go, but budget and weight can play a major factor in your decision. A 1.5 Kw spindle will weight about 10 pounds while a 2.5 Kw is about 13 where most routers come in under 10 pounds. Prices range from $200 to several thousand dollars.

    If weight is your only concern try placing weight on tool mount and see how it handles it. I would suggest starting at 5 pounds and the move it in all three axis. You can do this until you reach a stall or just up to the weight of the tool head you'd like to use, I'd go a few pounds over just to be safe. Measure for flex and droop of the tool head as you move.
     
    Neil Scott likes this.
  3. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Stalling is the extreme. Long before that you will suffer endmill breakages, and inaccurate cuts, wasted stock etc as the extra weight will cause deflection issues.
    Read How to calculate V-Slot® deflection

    If you deviate from a router to a VFD expect to engineer around the extra weight, you will have to modify, adapt and reinforce to handle the weight.

    Also, VFD = complicated
    Router = simple. Wear and tear is grossly overestimated. Imagine the runtime in our lab here, and the abuse with all the testing and prototyping we do, and brushes last well over a year on average here (Dewalt 611 though). Yet to have a bearing failure
     
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  4. Gofertpc

    Gofertpc Well-Known
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    As someone going through this exact process with my Lead 1010 let me throw my 2 cents in. I will state that my decision to go with a VFD and spindle is partly because of the extra rigidity I now have with the installation of the High-Z Mod as well as concerns about EMI triggering some strange behavior from my existing setup. That extra C channel across the width of the machine really takes care of any deflection issues you might run into because of the added weight. I went with the 1.5Kw 110v liquid cooled spindle. I also purchased a shielded power cable to run from the VFD to the spindle - this thing is at least twice as thick as a regular router cable. I am also replacing all control cables for the limit switches, motors, and my cooling system with shielded cables.

    What "extras" have I needed besides buying the VFD and Spindle kit - first and foremost is the shielded spindle cable. Then 4 wire shielded cable for the motors, 3 wire shielded cable for the limit switches, and two wire shielded cable for the LED as well as my 12v cooling system. I also 3d printed two 48 inch drag chains large enough for all cables to run through. I also 3d printed a customized dust boot for the 65mm spindle. I modified a design I found on thingiverse so that it has enough upward reach to secure it to the spindle and an opening big enough so it fits high enough onto the spindle so that I can get the wrenches onto the spindle without removing the dust boot. I also formed a recess in the base of the boot for installing an "angel eyes" 12v LED light ring. I also purchased 2 65mm aluminum mounting brackets for the spindle. Lastly I purchased a self contained liquid reservoir/pump combo, a radiator and two 120mm cooling fans along with a 12v power supply since they are all normally PC cooling components along with a flow meter with a temp display.

    The final version of the dust boot was finished last night and while I have ideas of ho I am going to mount the cooling components - that plan will be finalized during re-assembly. The holidays have taken a lot of time away from the project but I hopw to have everything back up and running by next weekend.

    While the VFD and spindle wiring may seem intimidating at first it's really not all that hard. Pay attention to detail and it will go fine.
     
    Neil Scott likes this.
  5. Gofertpc

    Gofertpc Well-Known
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    Here is my completed dust boot and mount for my flow control/temp sensor
     

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  6. Sk8nmike

    Sk8nmike New
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    I couldn't imagine Modify a CNC without knowing it's stall limit, along with measuring for sag and defection as you go will give you a complete idea of the tool weight your machine can handle. I can easily see someone adding right up to the max weight listed by the manufacture and going over that with a large bit, I have several bits that weight over a pound...

    As for complicated, setup it a little more involved then a router, but if you're able to read and follow instructions the basic setup to get running is fairly simple. After that it can get a little involved but the functionality of your machine will expand well beyond anything you can accomplish with a simple router...
     
  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    If you take wiring/setup in isolation yes, but re-engineering a kit to handle the extra weightcan overwhelm a beginner - therefore still More complicated, those that ask "which is better" tend to be those that would benefit from sticking to a router. By the time you know the advantages of a VFD and how to use it, its unlikely you will be asking that question :)


    Of course, but tailored to the specific example, on extrusion based machines, deflection is the bigger issue than stalling (unless you deviate to a lesser electronics package than we offer of course) so therefore, again, for a beginner, more important to consider deflection issues than stalling as its more likely to be an issue. Focusing on stall only on a leadscrew driven extrusion machine for example, will make you believe you can lift an elephant! Hey it hasnt stalled yet, no matter I am flexing my gantry down 20mm already (;

    In giving advice, its always good to consider the broader picture so its kinda the responsible thing to guide a new user on a path that doesnt just lead to frustration. Something we tend to spend a lot of focus on, to get more people into the hobby and hoping they make the world a better place. As people learn and grow they will inevitably change out kit to suit after all, but if you are just starting out, anything that gets you over that first hurdles easier, is the better choice
     
    #7 Peter Van Der Walt, Jan 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020

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