Welcome to Our Community

Some features disabled for guests. Register Today.

VFD Spindle Control via OpenBuilds BlackBox Controller and Software

Discussion in 'Controller Boards' started by Josh Lambeth, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Xander1983 likes this.
  2. Corey Applegate

    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2019
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    7
    Well Ok, I can see that having separate commands could be useful. I Was using the same IOT relay for the router and Vacuum before.
     
  3. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Despite useful, if you dial in a PWM signal, the IoT will not like it at all. Grbl has only one spindle output - its used as PWM, 0-10v and can be jumpered to internal relay (speaking of, moving to a variable spindle setup, you did remember to remove the relay Jumper right?)
     
    Rhett E likes this.
  4. wayne ralph

    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    hey guys i have a hengyang hy02d223b openbuilds black box controller. setup i'm not getting variable speed just on off spindel runs on max any help
     
  5. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Check the VFD manual, and also see docs:blackbox:connect-vfd [OpenBuilds Documentation] (links near the bottom too)
     
  6. wayne ralph

    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Done all settings as per video and set up just get max do I need to change the jumpers in the bb
     
  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Did you remember to set the Grbl parameters like $30?
    Are you testing with the correct parameters (S-word) scaled to $30
     
  8. wayne ralph

    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    So got variable speed but only 9000rpm any suggestion
     
  9. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    VFD parameters, Grbl settings, and correct S-values in GCODE?

    9000 is about half of 18000 which is a default on some VFDs, so 2 vs 4 motor poles may explain half the RPM
     
  10. wayne ralph

    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thanks I got it changed from 4 to 2 and 24000 rpm thank for your help
     
    Peter Van Der Walt and sharmstr like this.
  11. Rhett E

    Rhett E Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2020
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    45
    I've got this exact spindle and followed the instructions precisely. I'm not seeing what to set the minimum frequency/RPM to. It looks like 'PD011 Frequency Lower Limit' is what I'm after but it's defaulted to 0 which doesn't sound right.
     
    Peter Van Der Walt likes this.
  12. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Your spindle manufacturer should really advise on what the spindle can handle,but lets assume 6000rpm. 400hz =24000, so 6000 would be 6/24*400 = 100Hz
    On one of my machines here, I have mine set to 120Hz (7200RPM) because its air cooled, and I want to get enough air through it
     
    Rhett E likes this.
  13. Rhett E

    Rhett E Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2020
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    45
    I changed it and it's working correctly, however it won't turn off with M5. Is this the jumper in the BB that I need to change?
    Also, will I still be able to use the IOT relay for vacuum?
    Referring to my other thread if Fusion sees the min RPM at 10k and CAM is set to 6k will it still post correctly even though it throws the error message?

    I appreciate your help, Peter.
     
  14. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Recheck all parameters, you should be able to turn it off with M5, so some VFD parameter is still off
     
  15. Jay Lytle

    Jay Lytle New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    20
    Realizing this is an older post, I would like to try and get clarification on the voltage output on the blackbox. I have a VFD and spindle on order.

    So, if I send a spindle speed of 20,000 rpm on the M3S20000 line, the BlackBox will automatically translate that to the appropriate 0-10v output needed to tell the VFD to drive the spindle at 20k rpm, right? All this assuming I have my $30 and $31 values set to 0 and 24000, which is the max for that particular spindle.

    Thank you in advance for your assistance!
     
  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Correct yes. See docs.openbuilds.com/blackbox for documentation :)
     
    Jay Lytle likes this.
  17. Jay Lytle

    Jay Lytle New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    20
    I went back and re-read the documentation. According to that, I have to know what voltage will operate the spindle at 20k or 18k or whatever, and send that on a scale of 0-1000. I thought the purpose was to send the spindle rpm and grbl would convert the 18k or 20k or whatever to say, 800 or whatever voltage would be required to get the spindle to spin at 18k. According to how I am understanding the documentation, I have to calculate what voltage 18k rpm would be equal to on a scale of 0-1000, 1000 representing 24k, and send that as the spindle rpm in VCarve. Am I totally misunderstanding this?

    Also, the 0-10v document refers to the github for grbl, which proceeds to discuss pwm rather than voltage. Should I have ordered a VFD that supported pwm instead of voltage?

    Sorry to be so dense, but I am thoroughly confused, and am just trying to keep from blowing up my motion controller or vfd.
     
  18. Jay Lytle

    Jay Lytle New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    20
    Okay. I went back and re-read the grbl statement. I think it makes more sense now. I'll definitely use a vom to check voltages before I hook up my vfd to make sure I get the correct voltages out.

    Thank you!
     
  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Yes, $30=24000, $31=0. VFD parameters set to match (Do set Minimum RPM to stop spindle overheating) and the rest just works. 0-10v is industry standard.

    Setup your CAM to output S0-24000 too
     
    Jay Lytle likes this.
  20. CStalvey

    CStalvey New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    I just completed my build with the same hardware as Josh. When I start my spindle it moves up to 24,000 as expected. I checked the voltage coming from the Blackbox and it’s 9.87v, so that checked out. When I change the speed through grbl to 8,000, I can hear the spindle slowing. But it only slows to 16,000. The voltage coming in on V1 is 3.2 volts. Changing the speed to 12,000 in grbl causes the spindle to go up to 24,000 with a voltage of just under 5v.
    I’ve checked the wiring and the settings multiple times and all looks good. The voltage coming in is at the level it should be but the rpm’s are always double what is expected. With a max of 24,000.
    Anyone have any thoughts?
     
  21. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Recheck VFD parameters. Particularly Motor Poles (2 vs 4) perhaps.
     
  22. CStalvey

    CStalvey New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    I’ll recheck everything and take a look at the poles; I had not checked that setting. Thanks
     
  23. CStalvey

    CStalvey New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    Okay, I checked everything and finally realized that PD70 on the VFD was defaulting to 1 and wouldn't let me set it to 0. Having it at 1 meant it was expecting 0-5v which is why all my speeds were being doubled. I reset all the settings on the VFD and was finally able to get option 70 to change to 0 and stay there. All is working fine now. Thanks for the assistance.
     
    Peter Van Der Walt likes this.
  24. Shell M. Shrader

    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2022
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    13
    Thanks for sharing this. I followed this procedure for my BlackBox X32 and (same) Huanyang VFD. Overall, working just fine.

    One minor caveat.... probably something that can be tuned if I care that much about it... This may even be due to some prior programming I had in place on the VFD for RS485. The scale does not appear to be linear and I'm pretty sure it's in the VFD rather than the BlackBox. The curve is wider at the bottom and tighter up top so I tuned the controller to match 16,000 RPM where I normally run and will live with the +/- 1000 scaled RPM variance at the extremes above and below it.

    I do miss RS485 but this will work just fine!
     
    Larry LaBonte likes this.
  25. Tony N

    Tony N New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2023
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    We just had to change our blackbox out and the new replacement is the X32. All was good until testing after setting the proper voltage. The spindle turns on and I am able to adjust the speed properly but when I turn off the spindle it only drops down to 196 rpm. is there any additional setting or connections needed to control the shut down of the spindle? Oh and just to be on the same page we have the exact same spindle and VFD that has been working great and I even swapped out the original black box from another machine to verify it was the fault.
    Tony
     
  26. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    That indicates the VFD's Minimum Frequency parameter hasn't been configured correctly. VFDs has a parameter that basically says "if the input goes below the spindle's minimum (6000rpm for watercooled, 7200rpm for air cooled) rather turn OFF the spindle. That way low/0-rpm range coming in over 0-10v stops the spindle. Refer the VFD manual or similar writeups.
     
  27. alainaudio

    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2023
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Tony,
    Same thing here, I get a Huanyang VFD that still indicates freq=24.40Hz for a M5 / STOP command.
    Have you found the parameter(s) and value(s) to set up ?
    TIA
     
  28. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    See first post in this thread, other users reports it works

     
  29. Tony N

    Tony N New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2023
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have gone over all the setting regarding signal for spindle and still no joy. I switch the X32 over to the older 4x box and everything works just fine, spindle shuts don and starts perfectly. When I then switch back over to the X32 box everything works EXCEPT the shut down, it hovers around 196 rpms. Our spindle and VFD is the same model as in the video in post#1.
    I have gone over all the setting in the VFD numerous times without a change.
    The only differences are the black box versions. The X32 has numerous additional settings that are not in 4x firmware and I tried all different setting related to the spindle with no success. As a side note I am also running the latest version of OpenBuilds Control.

    After several hours of trying to get this running we are at the point of returning these X32 boxes we ordered and replacing them with the older 4x that is known to work.

    Tony
     
  30. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    13,751
    Likes Received:
    4,070
    Perhaps some defaults changed along the way, while trying random things.

    - Take a backup of your Grbl Settings (Backup settings button on Grbl Settings tab)
    - Perform an EEPROM reset (button on toolbar on the Grbl Settings tab)
    - Load a clean Machine Profile from Grbl Settings tab > Select a machine from the list > Save and Reset
    - could change $30 to 24000 just to make things more logical (if its a 24krpm spindle)

    A clean set of settings may have different results

    This also assumes you did follow the initial setup documentation and thus did calibrate your 0-10v: docs:blackbox-x32:connect-vfd [OpenBuilds Documentation]
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice