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the wheels tight on 1510

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Chadfarmer, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    I have a workbee 1510 had since Thursday I have the y axis that is in a bind I took out the tight wheels and changed them with other ones. same problem, double and triple checked to make sure all spcers are there and made sure right spacers the other side I have checked the spacers are right all escentrics are at the lowest if I tighten up any the wheels get way to tight and don't want to turn. the left side all 3 of the bottom inside are too tight …. im at a loss anyone im getting aggravated at it I tried to cut a circle my wood cnc does a better job. I loosened up the bolts to see if they would help no dice
     
  2. Christian James

    Christian James Veteran
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    Where did you buy it?
     
  3. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    this website Im thinking I got a lemon stripped screws , fan burnt up
     
  4. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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  5. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    already have frustrated to the extreme my bobcnc works 100% this wasting wood I need to get a set up and run program I guess this is different than the last 2 cncs I had
     
  6. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    Chad,
    So when you tighten the bolts the wheels seize up? when not on the extrusion but tight do they spin freely? If they are seizing up with bolt tightening alone then the bearings are not set all the way on the polycarb wheels.
    Put the wheel flat on a flat hard surface (smooth table) and put a small flat board over it and smack it with your fist or a mallet to set the bearings in the wheels.

    When setting the Eccentrics, snug all the bolts up, make sure everything still spins, only move the eccentrics a very small bit at a time until there is significant friction, you don't want to clamp the wheels to the extrusion.
    Cheers
    Gary
     
  7. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    so I have to take everything back apart to smack a f ing bearing? the video didn't show that at all or even mention it
     
  8. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    ill pull one of the tight ones out and try that it total sucks to get it out and reinstall so will take me 15 20 mins
     
  9. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    I have 2 or 3 on each side that are tight they move but are hard against the metal u adjust the bottom because it do just spins freely not touching metal and the top just get tighter. I can turn the hard ones but super hard to turn. not like video I have to reinstall the bearing I took 2 pieces of board and hit the bearing to seat them
     
  10. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    the tight ones back in a pain to get in, the escentrics are toward the bottom or most play and the bottom wheel is loose and top is tight I tighten lower and the top does get a little tighter takes force to move it
     
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Apart from what Gary suggested, did you remember to put the precision shim between the bearings? (without the spacer, when snugging up the bolt you will push the balls into the sides of the bearing, thus lcoking them up. The spacer keeps the inner races of the bearings spaced correctly, the lip in the wheel keeps the outer races spaced correctly. With both bearing races correctly spaced, all is in alignment):

    See

     
    #11 Peter Van Der Walt, Feb 21, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  12. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    Did everything i could think of. All parts there.

    Ok im done playing games with thing. So i just reorder the wheel set up and new plates i mean it still binds up.
     
  13. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    Ran a program and lets just say it was way off
     
  14. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Let' start from the beginning and get this solved....

    On which axis (axes) are the wheels too tight?

    With the axle screws tightened do all the wheels roll smoothly prior to inserting the C-beam?

    With the 6mm marking on all the eccentric spacers facing inward toward the extrusion do you have to use force to get the extrusion to enter between the plates or does it readily glide in?
     
  15. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    Im done im just going to take it all back apart and start over order new screws and be done.
     
  16. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Shows Video Unavailable.
    You can use built in attachment on forum here, or Youtube
     
  18. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    Its on Facebook


    Openbuilds diy cnc machines forum
     
  19. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Found the video on facebook, I see there's also a lot of friendly folk helping out in the comments too.
    8
    Its still hard to determine from the video, but here's what I think may be going on (based on your video, descriptions here and over on the video, as well as past experiences all together)

    Determine the source:
    - The video doesn't really show if the wheels are tight on the rail (ie getting pressed to the rail too hard) or if they are also tight on the shaft/bolt (when you take it off the rail, are they loose or tight) - this would be the most important thing to determine first

    If the wheels are tight when they are OFF the machine, just on the bolts, then the likely causes, in order are:
    1. Precision shim between the bearings, improperly installed: You can unseat one bearing (tricky to do but not impossible) and check that the shim is indeed installed. If not, add one. If you can't unseat it, replace wheel.
    2. Bolt overtightened (Plastic, can deform. Tight here is just 'tight enough' - shouldnt be tightened to the point you strip threads. Thats why it comes with Nylon nuts, so the nyloc keeps the nuts on, not tightening pressure) - It may damage the wheel, so may need to replace. But be careful with tightening overall. Tight is about a quarter to half turn with an allen head driver after its hand tight.
    3. Stack up problem: You'll have to go in close to the bearings and looks for rubbing. If you don't have the correct stackup (spacers, shims, etc) then maybe some component is rubbing on a part of the wheel on the outside (or the outside race of the bearing) and thus increasing friction. The stackup around the bold should be something like bolt head -> plate -> spacer -> precision shim -> bearing -> precision shim -> bearing -> aluminum spacer -> (second wheel) bearing -> precision shim > bearing -> precision shim -> plate -> M5 nylon nut. The parts right next to the bearing should ONLY touch the inside metal ring (the 5mm hole goes through the inner bearing race - only the side edges of this race should touch a spacer) - ie not the shield, or outside race, should be in contact with the spacers

    If the wheels spin freely if you remove them from the rail, and only become 'locked' when you install the carriage onto the rails, then the most likely causes, in order, are:
    1. Eccentric Spacer improperly adjusted. There are a couple videos on our Youtube showing the process, look at the actuator builds too, listen to the voiceovers. There are tips in all the videos (if the workbee video is too light on explanations)
    2. Flat spots on wheel: I f a wheel was previously used in a locked/overtightened/etc situation, it could develop a squashed/flat side. Rolling off the flat side is hard, so it might stay on the flat and slide along. Replace the wheel if any are found to be damaged


    If you feel like you need a couple more wheels to get you going, please reach out to the Part Store at [email protected] - i am sure they'd like to help you get going and wouldnt mind helping out a bit.

    And asking again, PICTURES. Nice and closeup prove me wrong, show us your stackup is correct (; or maybe we spot something we dont even think to check. Pics, close up, well lit and nice to check the details on beats a video
     
    #20 Peter Van Der Walt, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    Gary Caruso and MaryD like this.
  20. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    I believe he said on Facebook that he moved the wheels to different spots on the plate and then they spun freely. The wheels he moved to the trouble area then were locked up. It is tough to keep track since stuff is posted in multiple locations and various forums such as here and Facebook. It could possibly be the plate.
    upload_2019-3-8_14-9-47.png
     
  21. Dmhaes

    Dmhaes Journeyman
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    I’m no pro, but I think taking measurements of both the rails, and the spacing between the holes in the plates would probably yield an answer. I remember him saying the problem didn’t move with the wheels when they were swapped around, it stayed in the same place.It sounds to me like something is off with either a plate, a rail, or a combination of the two. Hard to troubleshoot over the web though.
     
  22. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    I cant think of anything plate specific that would cause that. Only once on the beam if holes are off, but that is unlikely on the cbeam plates, they are very well made.

    If however he only moved the wheels, but kept same bolt, spacer stack up and bolt tension, there might be a clue in one of those
     
    Giarc likes this.
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Thats why i also ask, is it when off the beam, or only once on the beam... That will help us see if its related to wheel squashing on the beam. Or binding axially on the shaft for some reason. I'd like it if we dont add to his confusion just yet. Let him work my list in order.
     
  24. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    No big deal i know what machine ill not recommend to anyone when i buy a machine i dont look for individuals to help me the guy that sells it to me. So im done with this ill just let it sit in the corner.
     
  25. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    Bye the way tight on rail with nothing attached to it. This thread can die i refuse to use the wheels having all custom plates made and more cash i shouldnt have spent but im done. Aggravated ill just throw money at it to make it right.
     
  26. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    If the plates you received are bad contact the parts store. They'll take care of it.
     
  27. Chadfarmer

    Chadfarmer Journeyman
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    Not worth my time anymore
     
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