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Spoilerboard help

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Colin Mccourt, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Hi.
    Complete newbie to desktop CNC but have used a large auto changer industrial glass milling machine before. Maybe this is posted in the wrong section, if so apologies...I have just bought a new 1000x750 screw driven Workbee from Ooznest and I'm awaiting delivery of my new machine...Prior to dispatch I want to crack on and make my spoilerboard (s) from 18mm MDF. I propose to use "13mm D Nuts" as my clamping media holders...Literature states that my spoilerboard will be 620x1000mm...and I wish to equi space the "D Nuts" in rows...Can anyone tell me what is the best spacing/ for the these threaded holders, any help appreciated
    Regards
    C
    d nut.jpg
     
    #1 Colin Mccourt, Jan 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  2. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    When I was researching this, it seemed that 3" grid was pretty common. I ended up not doing the grid and use double sided tape to hold things down.
     
  3. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    There is another version of those "D nuts" (usually called threaded inserts) without the flange. I use them on my spoiler board because they can be inserted from the top, which means you can put them in where they are needed without taking the spoiler board off the machine. Screwfix (UK) sell them with a 6mm internal thread. Just drill an 8mm hole (avoiding your spoiler board supports) and drive them in with an allen key until the top of the insert is below the surface of your spoiler board. If you use the ones in your picture the flange will be just above the surface and could catch the cutter on later jobs. Alex.
     
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  4. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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  5. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    I'm guessing you might be better to wait, build your machine, and let it drill all the holes for you?
    It makes a great first-time project. :D
     
  6. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    That is what I did. Then I discovered I never seemed to have a hole where I needed one and if I tightened down a clam too much, it would pull the insert out because MDF and particle board definitely do not share the characteristics of solid oak. :banghead: A 3X3 inch grid may be be sufficient. I think mine was 6X6. I have since moved on to T-track. I put them every 2.75 inches and started using these hold down clamps and like them.
    DSC_0099.jpg
     
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  7. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    have you tried the maksing tape and superglue method?
    I am using it for just about everything.



    also, I spaced my grid at 100mm which is actually a litttle too large. have not used it for ages though.

    and while the machine can cut most of the holes for itself there will be a row on each edge outside the cut area that it cannot reach that you will have to manually drill.
     
  8. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Many thanks guys, lots of interesting ideas there.... I have taken on-board all your comments either for use now or for future reference. I have access to the "D Nuts" and MDF hence the tendency to utilise these for my first board. The reason I want to use the "D Nuts is that I also have access to M6 headboard screws which I hope to employ in some fashion to hold workpieces down. (see image below) A 75mm grid sounds about right to me via your comments so I'll go ahead and factor that in around the board size. My intention is to mill circular inserts to 5mm depth then drill the further 13mm to accept the nut using the appropriate bit so as the head flange is recessed. (in readiness for CNC prep and skim). This I hope will give me a few future "skimmings" of the same board for prolonged life. I'll pop a photo up on here later today when I finish the job.
    Again, your help is much valued and appreciated and I hope I can call on you all from time to time in the months ahead when the serious stuff kicks in lol
    headboard screw.jpg
     
    #8 Colin Mccourt, Jan 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  9. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    "!ngenious" thanks for sharing
     
  10. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    Not on my Workbee, but I have on my Tormach
     
  11. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    My (Non-CNC'd) Spoilerboard using the caveman method,
    I really do like that SuperGlue idea though.......OK dont laugh....I've made a start this evening, and YES it would have made a lovely first project for my new Workbee..and a whole lot quicker I'd expect hahaha.... but hey ho...onward we go.....I cut the MDF to size as per manual and marked out a grid pattern on my board, with a first row X&Y axis set at 25mm then 72mm pattern thereafter worked in well. See pics for progression thus far

    Spoilerboard raw1.jpg
     
    #11 Colin Mccourt, Jan 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  12. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    I also use the superglue masking tape method for may things. No more need for holding tabs. What I like best is that it is thick enough that I can cut all the way through the material but not touch the spoil board so I do not have to resurface as often. :thumbsup: For larger stock I still use hold down clams.
     
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  13. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Thats exactly what I was thinking @Giarc ...There is a time and place for both methods Traditional Clamping and the Masking Tape/Glue concept. I too (he says like a guy with no machine yet lol) would use the Tape/Glue approach for smaller/lightweight wood stock and clamp down for larger more weighty materials.
     
  14. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    A light sand and after some 126 rebates, holes and D Nuts later my new Spoiler-Board is complete..(The next one will be CNC'd for sure lol). Turned out pretty well in the end. Now all I have to do is await the arrival of my new Workbee from Ooznest....I cant wait to get started (famous last words)
    Thanks to everyone, your input on this topic was very much appreciated
    Regards
    C

    Spoil Board Fin.jpg
     
    #14 Colin Mccourt, Jan 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  15. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Before you start on your workbee check out some other builds for snags some of us have come across. (eg workbee with duet controller - full disclosure, that's mine). Especially check your T nuts and be very gentle when connecting the stepper motor cables to the duet.
     
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  16. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Thanks @Alex Chambers..This is going to be a stiff learning curve for me...and from experience with larger machines (already commissioned by engineers) snags are all part of that curve...But having said that and forked out quite a lot of money for a man in my situation I hope these will be minimized...I wasn't expecting something as simple as the T nuts to be a problem...not good karma to hear this
     
  17. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    There really weren't any major problems - just some things it's better to check before putting everything together. The kit from Oozenest went together very well overall - all parts cut to size/machined very accurately. My workbee went together perfectly true and square with no adjustment needed.
    Alex.
     
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  18. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Cheers buddy
    I've been checking out a few vids on the mechanical side of things for starters..seems fairly straight forward with some of the walk-throughs, although wiring and commissioning may be another story ..One hurdle at a time ..
    Thanks again for the heads up.
    Regards
    C
     
  19. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Well my Workbee machine is within the Postal System as we speak so not too long now before it arrives...I still have a few workshop jobs to get done before I start setting things up.
    Thinking ahead though, one of the first jobs I'll need to perform is Surfacing the Spoilerboard.
    For this I'll possibly be needing a dedicated one inch (25mm) Surfacing Bit. (I imagine a 6mm endmill would take forever)
    My Question is, Which is the most viable bit in this category that I can buy without getting into too much expense.
    (I'll be driving a Makita spindle)
    I live in UK, so some links to local sites would be very helpful indeed
    Regards
    C

    $_35.JPG
     
    #19 Colin Mccourt, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  20. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    It takes longer, but I found the largest cheap router bit for a 1/4" router was 19mm available from Screwfix.
    Alex.
     
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  21. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    #21 Colin Mccourt, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  22. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Screwfix item No 55203 £7.19. I got mine from Toolstation (they might post to you, but I don't think they have a store in. Northern Ireland) item No 18912 (20mm dia) £5.14.
    Alex.
    PS if you are machining wood router bits are cheaper than end mills and clog less.
     
    #22 Alex Chambers, Feb 7, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  23. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    If you don't mind the wait, and I think you have the time, I'd go Chinese.
    I've bought quite a few from them, they do the job in hand, and maybe a few more, and because they are cheap I always buy 2 or 3 at a time.
    It's worth the wait then. :)
     
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  24. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    I use the Makita Router and have that Whiteside 25mm bit in a 1/4" shaft. I like it a lot. It is pricey though. I have no problems cutting 0.5 mm surfacing passes (which has been plenty for me) at about 2500 mm/min. I have been very happy with every Whiteside bit I have purchased. That being said, I use a lot of cheaper Chinese 1/8" single flute endmills for both wood and aluminum. For cutting plastics this EnPoint has been a favorite of mine and I noticed you can get similar ones from China in a five pack for cheaper.
     
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  25. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Thanks for all replies thus far guys, its very much appreciated, as I go on this learning path.
    @Giarc what speed do I set on the Mikita for those passes with the Whiteside bit.
     
  26. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    For a good surfacing bit I dont mind spending a few extra beer tokens but I would still like to keep a few in my pocket when it comes to regular milling bits (ones I would probably use everyday).
    I purchased a starter mill kit with my machine and upon reading the above comments and doing a little research, I kinda wish I hadn't, well not as a beginner anyway (I'd rather break a few cheapo mills than ones I'd paid good money for)
    I'm probably comming across as a kind of skinflint in these hallowed circles, far from it, I just dont see the point in a novice trashing expensive bits in the early days of this learning process.
    That said,:rolleyes:
    I've seen these EU_HOZLY bits on Amazon that look to fit the bill and I realise now that for my £££'s spent on my starter set I could have purchased a whole squad of these (if they are up to the job)
    Again I'm aware that longevity per bit may come into play here but the pricing may negate that so long as the cut is good.
    ...Has any of the forum members used this specific brand..they seem to get good reviews..
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=diy&field-keywords=EU_Hozly+end+mills
    Thoughts Please...are these fit for purpose on my Workbee/Makita machine
    Regards
    C
     
    #26 Colin Mccourt, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  27. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    £5.49 for a set (0.8 - 3.175) of 10, £6.32 for 10 1.5mm from ebay. These are 1/8" shank bits though, so you would need an adapter collar for your 1/4" collet. I got one with 2 "free" engraving V bits for £4.99 from ebay. If, like me, you are likely to break a few bits to start with - let them be cheap bits.
    Alex.
     
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  28. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    I purchased the smaller collet for the Makita with my order @Alex Campbell of which Parcelforce have managed to make a hash off.
    Thanks for the heads up on the Bay of Fleas :thumbsup:
     
    #28 Colin Mccourt, Feb 8, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  29. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    I would look for a cheap set of 3.75 mm single flute spiral up cut bits and a cheap. I broke a lot of those when I first started by making silly mistakes like forgetting to reset the z axis after a tool change, or crashing the endmill into the screw that held my work piece down. :banghead:

    As for the speed setting on the Makita, I very rarely go above the 3-4 range. I will usually start faster when first cutting a new material, then slow it down as it is cutting to get a good feel for what works.

    A good set of cheap straight flute endmills similar to the EnPoint I linked above will work well with wood because they will not year out the material like the upcut endmills. I will ramp in my cuts at about 10 degrees with these.
     
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  30. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Master
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    Well I managed to completely clear the garage and its been a fairly productive day all in all, given the rubbish I had to get rid off lol
    Due to space limitations I have no room for a complete new bench, so I fashioned a table top to attach to an existing one, whilst I await delivery of parcel no.2 of my consignment.
    An interesting week ahead methinks :rolleyes:

    bench 2.jpg
     
    #30 Colin Mccourt, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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