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SL Cantilevered 3D Printer

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Sonny Lowe, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    Sonny Lowe published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
  2. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Great looking start to this Build @Sonny Lowe I think its going to be a good one.
    Keep up the good work.
     
  3. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    Thanks Mark, I'm looking forward to completing the preliminary design so I can start ordering parts :)
     
  4. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    My initial thoughts for the X-Axis stepper motor is a NEMA 14. I like it's small form factor and I think it would have plenty of power to move a small acrylic gantry plate with a E3D V6 Bowden Hotend (not much total weight there). Maybe running a 16 tooth pulley would help as well!?!?

    Any thoughts on that motor choice?

    Thanks,
    Sonny
     
  5. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    I think your right the 14 should do the trick with no problems as there are no forces except the inertia and you can always adjust the stepper settings for smoother motion as well.
    Keep up the great work, looks awesome so far Sonny :thumbsup:
     
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  6. Indieflow

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    Nema 14's are more than powerful enough for 3d Printers! I use them on all the axis for my design (IndieLC) :)
     
  7. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    Thanks Mark
     
  8. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    That's great to hear, thanks for your input!! I honest didn't think they'd be powerful enough for all three axis, but now you have me rethinking things :cool:

    I must say I absolutely love your IndieLC. If I had decided to build an existing design it would have been this one, it is one of the printers that inspired me to try one on my our...nice work!!!
     
  9. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Looking really nice @Sonny Lowe :thumbsup: Seems like it took shape really quick
     
  10. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    Thanks Mark, it's coming together nicely, but not without it's setbacks ;)

    I must admit, it's great having a Laser Cutter at home :D I had to add some additional support to the 20x40 vertical rail and it literally took me less than ten minutes to draw the bracket, export it and cut them (I needed two)...that in itself makes the laser worth the price of admission :thumbsup:

    Sonny
     
  11. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    That is super nice to have that ability! In case you have not seen the laser origami technique, it may open doors and give you some new ideas
     
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  12. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    Mark, very cool video...I never imagined!!!

    I am very new to the Laser World, so any and all advice is greatly appreciated :)

    Sonny
     
  13. feric

    feric Well-Known
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    Hi Great Design!
    I would like to know whether "Angle Corner Connector" printed by PLA is strong enough?
    I think it need to be screwed tightly. What's your opinion?
     
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  14. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    feric,

    I don't use PLA much so I can speak from personal experience, but I can tell you that a friend of mine printed parts for my FT X-Axis Upgrade out of PLA and the X Carraige Rail Mounts cracked when he tightened the screws down around the bearings. I am currently printing him new ones out of ABS.

    The cracking could have been a problem due to brittle nature of PLA (ABS would be more forgiving), or possible the layer direction of the print. That's the small issue with printing the Angle Corner Connectors in the first place, with them taking load in two direction they will always be susceptible to cracking in one of those directions, by either over-tightening or fatigue/stress. Although I think load and stress are far less of an issue considering how small the printer is. The only Angle Corner Connector that take a lot of load would be the ones for the Vertical Z -Rail. I added the tie plates because of that and would suggest using two of the aluminum brackets for that rail.

    I actually printed mine in two different direction to see if one will hold up any better than the other, as far as assembly they both seemed to be fine. I'll let you know how they hold up and if I favor one layer direction over the other once the printer is up and running.

    Final note: I think adding the washers under the screws (a must really) on the brackets helps as well, they keep the screw from wanting to spread the hole open and push the bracket apart.

    Sonny
     
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  15. feric

    feric Well-Known
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    Got it, so you prefer using ABS for that connector.
    I had design similar to yours which put four aluminum extrusion intersecting parallels
    But I notice my aluminum bracket has a little obstructive design so I need to grind off them.
    I will try if it can be replaced by printed Angle Corner Connector
    Thx

    Feric
     
  16. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    Feric,

    Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "Cast" corner brackets, much prefer the Black Ones, they don't have the extrusions and have a much larger variety of uses. If they are being used in a high stress area, I would definitely recommend ABS at the least, if not the aluminum ones.

    Is your design posted here, I'd love to see it, and if anything I've designed helps please feel free to take cues from it.

    Regards,
    Sonny

     
  17. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    @Sonny Lowe just wanted to say your doing a great job on your build! Its really fun to follow along with your progress. Thank you for sharing and keep up the good work :thumbsup:
     
  18. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    @Mark Carew Thanks...It has been and continues to be a really fun build, and is coming together nicely. My Hotend will be in today so I need to get cracken' on the Extruder...it's the last piece of the hardware puzzle :p Then a whole new world of fun opens up ;)

    Sonny
     
  19. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Just keeps getting better the extruder is coming along really great!
    So true Sonny you are going to love having this machine in your shop. In most cases when building we can hit a block and get stuck because we do not have the part needed to continue but with the 3D printers we can whip one up in no time and keep moving forward.
     
  20. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    @Mark Carew

    I couldn't agree more, between my FT 3D Printer and the Laser Cutter there is little that ever held me back on this build. Only the occasional outsourced parts caused delays.

    Now I just need to get started on a CNC build (C-Beam, OX, Full Custom...so many choices ;-)...then I'll have all bases covered :p
     
  21. Redmayne

    Redmayne Well-Known
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    Awesome little machine. I know you have to finish writing the BOM etc, but minus the (very nice) lcd, do you have ano estimated cost of the build? And I saw your website offering cnc and laser cutting get, so any chance of getting a kit of the plastic/alum parts.
     
  22. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    @Redmayne Thanks for the kind words.

    Yes, I am still working the BOM, however the cost of the printer without he LCD should fall around $375.00 or so. That's based on my current level of the build...you could certainly come in a bit under that number, or of course go over it as well. Many of the components can be had a bit cheaper if you are willing to shop around or drop in quality a bit. One example is the board, an Adruino/Ramps setup can be had for $23.00 from Banggood, the MKS Base I used was $45.00 from Amazon. Another small issue are things like the small GT2 belt for the extruder (or the small bumpers), they were sourced from Amazon as well but I had to buy 10 of them @~$14.00, if you could buy them in a smaller quantity that would a few bucks as well.

    Although I haven't decided if I'll offer any kits, I could certainly provide the Laser Cut parts as well as the Printed Parts. Considering the whole GT2 belt issue I would most likely through one of those in as well sense I have 10 and only need a spare or two!?!?

    Once the build is official "Complete" I'll decide if a kit of some sort is viable...again, either way I'd be happy to provide the Laser Cut Parts, as most people don't have the resource readily available.

    In closing, $375.00 might seem like a lot for a printer of this size, but please keep in mind, it is constructed from all high quality components. No cheap linear bearings or 8mm rods, no cheap rail and plastic "hardware store" wheels, only OB Hardware was used. It also runs an E3D Hotend, it's not the cheapo Chinese knockoff (although you could go that route as well). I believe in most cases, you get what you pay for and I am thrilled to have this great little printer at what I consider a very reasonable cost :p

    Thanks again for your comment and question, this is exactly why we love to do this stuff :D

    Regards,
    Sonny
     
  23. Redmayne

    Redmayne Well-Known
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    Sonny,
    Do you think this could be scaled up and not have sagging issues? Like if an OB C channel with the double wide plate for z, and a thicker arm like 20x60 for the gantry. Ive had a printrbot simple for 3 years and love the little thing. The prints I produce are very good. I love the gantry style and have always wondered if it could just be bigger.
     
  24. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    @Redmayne

    By all means you can make the build volume larger. I only restricted it to it's current size because I wanted to use stock lengths of rail (250mm). I have designed the printer to do that exact thing. By simply changing rail lengths (while still using mostly stuck components) you can change the travel distance and therefore change the build volume as well. The only current limitation is the actual size of the current build bed (155x155). Depending on how much you wanted to increase the volume you might want to skip the acrylic gantry and go with an Alm OB gantry plate instead...the extra stiffness might come in handy!?!?

    The Z rail is fine at 20x40, it is plenty stiff enough to allow the print height to be increased. The only thing I'd suggest would be thicker laser cut mounting plates, maybe even have them T-off at the bottom to add a couple additional screws, and I would also use the OB Black Aluminum Corner brackets...I used "printed" corners on my prototype and although they are fine for the smaller volume I'd go with the Alm version if I made it any larger.

    If you run a Bowden Extruder (the only way to go with a Canti IMHO) you'd be fine with the 20x20 for the X rail. It won't flex any more by adding another 100mm or so in length. I made the gantry small and out of thinner acrylic material to keep it light so it could be extended if desired. If you like your Printerbot Simple you could consider running their Ubis Ceramic Hotend, it might be a bit lighter than the E3D and I don't think they require a cooling fan!?!? I thought about using one myself but simply didn't have any experience with them so I stuck to what I knew...E3D

    There are Canti 3D printers out there that are running a 200x200x220 build volume using the exact same size rails in both Z & X as my printer, so again, they are more than strong and stiff enough. I will actually be building another one once the MSL-6 DLP Printer build is complete, I'll run that at 250x250x250 with a heated bed. The only change I might make is would be to go with a 20x80 rail for the Y-Axis (it's what I used on my Prusa i3), and I would consider that OVERKILL!!

    If you decide to build one I know you'd be happy with it, and if you need anything remodeled in CAD that you can't do yourself, just let me know, I am always happy to help.

    Sonny
     
  25. Redmayne

    Redmayne Well-Known
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    Thanks for that. That's really good info. I like to over build things myself, but I've always thought most of the printer designs are semi overbuilt.
    The printrbot simple apparently has a but of a sag problem at x at around 200mm. A few guys have redesigned with some printed parts but it just don't look right. And probably why Mr. Drum only just put out the YZ axis extension. I'm just speculating though. That and the whole arm is a bit heavy with plate steel and extruder all on the axis.
    Past that it's a great little bot. Once I got it all tuned in I haven't had to adjust anything in over a year. Tape the plate, clean with some alcohol, and press print. I haven't had a failed print in as long as I can remember and even that one was my fault.
    Thanks again for the info. Also I may hold off on my sla build for a bit more. I want to see what's going to happen with daylight resins and lcd screens. I think it's on the cusp of happening and that will change things very quickly.
     
  26. Sonny Lowe

    Sonny Lowe Master
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    @Redmayne

    Yeah, I really like the Printrbot stuff, I've been chatting with Brook about purchasing a few of the Gear Head Extruder gears, I want to design my own version of that Extruder for Nema 14 motor...maybe try it on the Canti!?!?

    Funny you mention the DLP Printer again, after a lot of research I've decided on the Flex VAT, a Bottom Up Vertical Setup and I am almost there on the DLP Projector (that's the toughest of the decisions).

    I also really like the idea behind the Daylight Resins, I'm with you though and think that system needs some time to develop...I just don't want to wait LOL

    I'll get the DLP Printer going and when the Daylight system get ironed out, I might just have to build one of those as well ;-)

    Sonny
     
  27. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Sonny this Build is really looking pro! Love the LCD addition

    Keep up the great work! :thumbsup:
     
  28. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Master
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    Sonny, question about your MKS Base controller. From what I read of that controller, there is only one jumper for changing from 1/16 to 1/32 microstepping that effects ALL motors. Is that the case?
     
  29. Sonny Lowe

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    Keith,

    From what I understand the stepper drivers are permanently set to 16 micostepping, which I believe is max for an A4982 driver.

    This is directly from the MKS RepRap page "MKS Base's A4982 Microstepping is 16 microsteps".

    I just bought one of the MKS SBase boards that runs the DRV8825 drivers which will allow 1/32 microstepping, however I've not research it enough to know if you could reduce that!?!? The board runs on Smoothieware so that might drive the limits more than the hardware...here's a Smoothie Thread about the board...I've not read it but it might shed some light!?!?

    Hope that helps,
    Sonny
     
  30. Keith Davis

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