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openBuilds FreeBURN-2-Mini V-slot CO2 Laser (40-50w)

Discussion in 'Laser Cutters' started by openhardwarecoza, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    I understand the costs for material and machine time, but seriously over a $1000 to cut one. I'm all ears for different options, I have heard from a few people that having steel laser cut is much more cost effective. Plasma cutting would also be a good alternative, there are plenty of DIY Plasma CNC machines out there. From what I understand, it's also possible to plasma cut aluminum and get good results by changing from compressed air to CO2 or Argon. I do realize getting these parts produced here in the states for $150 is very unlikely, but going from 150 to 1700 is a bit much.
     
    Anders Sandstrom likes this.
  2. Robert Hummel

    Robert Hummel Custom Builder
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    Why not mill them?
     
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  3. Hytech2k

    Hytech2k Master
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    It's a bit hard holding down and cutting that thin material. It would be much easier to change to thin steel and plasma or laser cut them, still not too sure of the finish quality on plasma cutting aluminum. I personally don't have enough experience cutting metals to mill thin sheets of aluminum. Seems like it would be a royal PITA to anchor down I believe 19 parts so they don't go airborne...
     
    #93 Hytech2k, Mar 19, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  4. RichM

    RichM New
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    Did you have any issues with tolerances in your sheet metal design? Seems like alignment of the axis/mirrors would be difficult.

    I am finishing up my Buildlog.net 2.X laser and am interested in the outcome of your project.

    -Rich
     
    #94 RichM, Mar 23, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2015
  5. matt_o_70

    matt_o_70 Journeyman
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    Hi guys,
    D Stevens is speaking from experience. The raw material costs + labor + overhead + profit here are such that we will never see the per unit cost as low as your original shop. It is not that these shops are ripping us off - It is about low volume production and costs of doing business here. I imagine that if the quantity went up dramatically the unit cost would come down significantly.

    As an Update - One other shop that I had asked for a quote the quote process has stalled. They have asked if I can provide solidworks or .stp and tolerances required. They were not comfortable to quote with the existing DXF drawing only.

    I sent over the DXF file but they reported that the part was 440" wide in eDrawings. I understand that they don't want to expend any effort - to try to work with the SketchUp files. Time is money and having someone spend time outside the established workflow is not free. I offered to dimension the parts and share all the SketchUp files but there was no interest.

    So here are a few things - learned from my attempts to get quotes:
    1) Would be wise to include some form of scale legend in any and all DXF files. A simple line that is dimensioned (or bar legend) to allow end user to validate Units & dimensions are correct. When I communicated that the provided DXF file was Metric and that dimensions in mm worked for me - they did not try again. So lesson is make it easy as possible from the start.

    2) Provide a CAD format that is the closest thing to universal - STEP or IGES. SketchUp is a Mesh polygonal format - It is not a NURBS solid format that can be easily ingested into software where most fabrication shops will be comfortble working.

    I totally understand the appeal of SketchUp for the open source community - but many in the professional community will not be very tolerant of SU file format when it is time to exchange data and get quotes made.

    I can see the benefit to the FreeBurn 1 or Buildlog.net designs. buying extrusions precut to length and then assembling all the parts will often be cheaper than CNC cutting and bending processes for us.
     
  6. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    You definitely can use mild steel... I picked aluminum since in the factory I use costs the same (alu material cost is more than mild steel, but faster to process so the two balances out perfectly)
    A lot of the bends can be eliminated and bolted to a T-Slot corner too... I think it's time to start reworking that right away

    Its a big surprise after all (and a lesson learned) that processing sheet in ZA costs such a lot less than T-Slot/V-Slot based structures.... and that in the US its the different way round.
    I never understood the obsession with building your own CNCs for this reason - its always been cheaper for me to run out and get it done. Now I realize its going to take a different mindset totally

    That said the design could still have massive viability as a kickstarter (It's GPL so anyone who wants to - go for it) since the quantities should help! I'm still serious when I think someone should, use the profits to buy a laser and a bending brake - and offer it as a more accessibly tool for the prototype / maker market
     
  7. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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  8. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    If you are not following the Google Plus community for OpenBuilds, you would have missed these updates:

    https://plus.google.com/104034368033227202956/posts/bBZfBWf9zHQ

    https://plus.google.com/104034368033227202956/posts/aD4RbVPrr4G

    https://plus.google.com/104034368033227202956/posts/HNKAu3yBsDe

    https://plus.google.com/104034368033227202956/posts/B6bKPhfj5g8

    https://plus.google.com/104034368033227202956/posts/1XPoUyy9bR9

    https://plus.google.com/104034368033227202956/posts/dKEjWE5K58v

    :) Tonight I will post pictures of the first work toward the Z Axis - Brandon Satterfield from www.smw3d.com graciously offered to donate the OpenBuilds Leadscrew, Delrin Nut blocks and the Stop Collars toward the Z - so its gathering traction now!
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  9. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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  10. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team
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    Mark Carew likes this.
  11. SlyClockWerkz

    SlyClockWerkz Veteran
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    I pulled together some pricing, stateside, PA. I can get the set produced for ~260 (+shipping. +26$ to cover paypal fees) per set (ordering 5+ at a time). I'm looking into shipping now, Peter, now that you have a put together enclosure what did the outside dimensions come out to?
    That said, that pricing needs 5+sets ordered. Which I don't think would be too difficult to achieve.

    Also, this is out of .06 & .190 aluminum sheet, which Peter says isn't an issue as some clearances are designed in.
     
    #101 SlyClockWerkz, Apr 2, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  12. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    Well, you definately would NOT ship it assembled... Once assembled it would be a lot of dead volume (pretty much a empty box) - the whole thing is designed to bolt together so very easy to flatpack and ship.

    It should fit into a volume of:
    700mm W x 1000mm L x 400mm H

    PS: We have 6 parties on Google Plus confirming they want - so that target of 5 looks to be reached:

    votes.png


     
  13. SlyClockWerkz

    SlyClockWerkz Veteran
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    I was just looking for a worst case shipping size. Thanks!
     
  14. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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  15. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    Other updates... Got it moving!





     
  16. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    Repeated reliability testing of the XMIN and YMIN endstops

     
  17. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    @SlyClockWerkz NB

    NB: Latest version of the DXF if you want to get parts cut is http://openbuilds.com/attachments/v4laser_flatpack-after-beta1-with-new-mirror-mounts-dxf.7143/

    BUT NB NB NB NB!!!! There is a later modification with NEW Y Carriages that make installing the X VSlot MUCH MUCH EASIER and more secure... So replace the Y Carriages with http://openbuilds.com/attachments/freeburn-improved-y-carriages-dxf.8933/

    I also have a updated BOM at http://openbuilds.com/attachments/freeburn2-bom-may2015-ods.8932/
     
    #108 openhardwarecoza, May 7, 2015
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  18. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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  19. SatMike

    SatMike Well-Known
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    I received my plates from SlyClockWerks and everything looks great. Now I just need to start sourcing the rest of the parts. Have the electronics been finalized?
     
    openhardwarecoza likes this.
  20. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    2015-06-13 21.31.53.png I havent fixed the Aux connector position yet, apart from that (which is easy to fix after assembly) yes they are pretty finalised :)


    My tubes Finally got on a boat from Shamgai this past week! Long wait to get some shared container space, two containers in the meantime was too full....
     
  21. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    Mark Carew likes this.
  22. SatMike

    SatMike Well-Known
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    Any thoughts on buying the cheap 40w laser cutters on ebay and using for parts?

    For example:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-PRECIS...517?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19e4fb208d

    and a youtube review:


    $370 with free shipping, vs $180 for the tube by itself, $90 power supply, $170 laser head / mirrors = $440.

    Buying the complete machine would save $70 in addtion to gaining some additional parts and pieces (switches, water pump, etc.), so likely closer to $100-125 cheaper. That being said, I don't know if the laser head / mirrors would work or if there would be any other unforseen problems / shortcomings.
     
  23. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    You may want to take a look at what others are saying about cheap china lasers
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/gener...machine-discussion/166592-software-forum.html
    http://www.synthfool.com/laser/
    This was a quick google search, I am sure there is more you can look into an perhaps find a deal, but better yet if you build it you will know everything about it. ;)
     
  24. SatMike

    SatMike Well-Known
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    Mark,
    I'm not looking at using the chinese laser as is, but for parts to complete my freeburn build. I was just shopping the parts individually when I noticed the complete unit, and the fact that it was actually cheaper then buying the components seperately. Looking at the pictures and reading the reviews, I understand that the lenses/ mirrors are of lower quality, but they do seem to get the job done. I could also end up replacing them in the long run, and not be too much more out of pocket. It also seems that the majority of the complaints of the laser cutter is in regards to the electronics, software and the mechanical movement, and I would not be using any of those.

    I'm pretty sure that I am going to give it a try, and I was just curious if anyone could see a major hole in my thinking. Worst case, I should at least be able to use the power supply and tube. Then as long as I can get an additional $100 out of the machine, I come out even.
     
  25. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    I see, I just wanted to catch you before you jumped from some of the experiences I have been reading :)
    I agree if you can use the parts you would be good to go and if your able to get the tube that would make it worth it.
    Mark
     
  26. SatMike

    SatMike Well-Known
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    I went ahead and ordered the complete laser engraver from a US based seller for $380 shipped with $30 back in ebay bucks. I will provide updates as soon as I receive it. I will take a lot of photos as I tear it apart and repurpose it into the freeburn.
     
    openhardwarecoza likes this.
  27. SatMike

    SatMike Well-Known
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    For the closed loop belt between the y motor and driveshaft, the BOM states a length of 202mm but earlier in this thread you mention it being 110mm. Can you clarify the length? Also, where can I find a component list for the laser controller?

    Can anyone recommend a 3d printing service so that I can get the Z corners and Y motor spacer made? If someone can make them for me, I can trade a laser controller pcb as I will have 9 extra boards.
     
  28. SatMike

    SatMike Well-Known
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    I received the K40 chinese laser engraver. I took several pictures that I will post later, but all in all I think it was a good purchase. I haven't fired it up yet, but the tube looks to be in good shape, and the power supply should work out fine (Model MYJG40W). The mirrors should be usable as well, but I will need to replace the laser head in order to utilize air assist. The control board is custom (MS10105 v4.85), but it looks like I can sell it for around $40. The exhaust fan and water pump might be usable as well, but I will probably just junk them. The steppers, chassis, and belts might be able to find a new life in a 3d printer, but more research on the steppers is needed.

    If anyone has any specific questions or want specific pictures or information, don't hesitate to ask. As soon as I get some time, I will create a new build log, so I don't clutter this thread up.
     
  29. openhardwarecoza

    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Builder

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    When I built my first laser I ordered K40 mirror mounts, K40 nozzle and even K9 (gold plates glass) mirrors from Lightobjects... That almost convinced me not to ever get a complete K40. Then I once did a electronics converstion for themakerspace.co.za on their K40 and that totally convinced me. The only useful things I can think of extracting are the PSU, Laser PSU and Tube...

    The mirror mounts on the K40 uses both a screw and nut at once - super awkward for fine adjustment
    The nozzle is quite short and wont clear enough below the X beam in the current design. You may be tempted to leave the short nozzle and just get a longer focal length lens... but then the air assist wont be able to extinguish flames quick enough... (housse4hack.co.za has a K40 melt down from that)

    So I am not too convinced a tube + PSU + 24v PSU + proper set of optics would cost more than a K40... Though I must admit you got yours at a good price. To ZA the shipping is about $200...

    Peter
     

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