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New Blackbox has stopped communicating

Discussion in 'Controller Boards' started by Joe Geisler, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Joe Geisler

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    Hello;
    I Bought the Bulkman3D 1510 Workbee mechanical ad Electronics kis recently. assembled everything, found arduino was bad out of the box so they will send a new one once they return to work due to Coronavirus.
    Not wanting to wait and wanting a better system I ordered a Blackbox from Openbuilds and WOW what a difference, looks great, boots right up, communicates easy. started small, just testing box, then 1 stepper to verify wiring order, then all steppers, then Z Probe, (had problems finding the Z probe wizard but that was purely my error due to lack of sleep, tested Z probe and it worked perfectly. calibrated steppers, all good, did a pen test and everything worked. then about 15 minutes later while i was preparing limit switches on the bench for wiring (nothiing hooked up yet, just prepping, I heard a faint click and saw that my laptop had turned off, Completely off. I dont have sleep mode enabled and computer was plugged in. After rebooting everything my laptop will not connect to the Blackbox. multiple attempts.
    searched forums. backtracked, maybe newest wiring (probe) was causing a problem, it was not grounded or shorted. disconnected and tested, same result,
    I powered down, disconnected everything from my Blackbox, turned off computer, everything. rebooted all, connected USB, Openbuilds Control sees "FTDI USB to Serial COM3" but it will not connect. This is what I get when I turn on Control then try to connect:

    [10:35:35] [ 3D Viewer ] WebGL Support found! success: this application will work optimally on this device!

    [10:35:35] [ Websocket ] Bidirectional Websocket Interface Started

    [10:35:36] [ update ] Checking for Updates

    [10:35:37] [ update ] You are already running OpenBuilds CONTROL 1.0.207

    [10:35:45] [ connect ] PORT INFO: Port is now open: COM3 - Attempting to detect Firmware

    [10:35:45] [ connect ] Checking for firmware on COM3

    [10:35:45] [ connect ] Detecting Firmware: Method 1 (Autoreset)

    [10:35:46] [ connect ] Detecting Firmware: Method 2 (Ctrl+X)

    [10:35:47] [ connect ] Detecting Firmware: Method 3 (others that are not supported)

    [10:35:49] [ connect ] ERROR!: No supported firmware detected - you need a controller with Grbl 1.1x on it, or there is a problem with your controller. Closing port COM3

    [10:35:49] [ disconnect ] PORT INFO: Port closed

    I read the forums and rebooted everything, same problem.
    I tried a different USB cable (1st cable was brand new with Blackbox) same errors
    I tried a short blue USB cable that I received from Bulkman3D, same issue.
    All device drivers for USB ports and devices show latest drivers.
    Tried other laptop (MUCH NEWER with lots of USB ports, both 2.0 and 3.0) same result
    Any ideas or next steps?
     

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  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Accidentally shorted V+ and GND pins on the output of the Limit switch connector?
    Also, never do wiring with things powered up! Always unplug electronics when working on it (Yes, USB is power as well)

    If you are lucky, that didn't do any permanent damage: If the incorrect limit switch wiring is still plugged in it will prevent the board from booting (as 5v rail may be shorted to gnd through a wiring mistake).

    Disconnect ALL wiring except the USB cable and test again. If it connects you are in luck.
     
  3. Joe Geisler

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    Actually I was standing about 6ft away from the blackbox when everything happened, nothing new was connected. I was just preparing the limits and their wiring (crimping connectors, that sort of thing, nothing plugged into blackbox while working on stuff. Only had system powered up so I could use the LED light ring that is powered off the PSU and if I power down then the weight of my spindle (that I still haven't had a chance to hook up yet) pulls my Z down too far to use the light)in preperation for when I had to climb into my enclosure to install them.

    Ok, so far I have disconnected everything from blackbox EXCEPT power and still gotten same results. I will power everything down, disconnect power, reboot laptop again just to verify it isnt a latched in problem, hook up USB and try again
     
  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Which PSU are you using?

    What exactly was connected, you mentioned limits and that is something that we see happen sometimes (if users wire C and NC of switch to GND and V+ by mistake instead of GND and SIG - as it comes up often, and you mentioned working on limits, it was the most likely cause)

    If nothing really was plugged into the limits, then work with what was, list it all so we can try and figure out happened. They go though a USB burn in test, so we need to try and find out what damaged it if it was damaged to avoid recurrence :)
     
  5. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Note the difference to my request :) - disconnect power too!

     
  6. Joe Geisler

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    OK, my computer is at the end of my CNC table next to blackbox and Mean well LRS-350-24 24v power supply that has a OB power case on it.
    hooked to the PSU was the Blackbox AND 24v LED lightright (separate connectors). Hooked to the Blackbox was the 4 stepper motors and the Z probe AND THE USB. The Z probe had its alligator clip away from the base and there is no metal nearby for them to ground to accidentally. the PSU was ON, the Blackbox was ON, the USB was connected to laptop, the OB Control was open and connected to lock steppers so Z wouldnt drift down. I was 4ft away at the side of the machine using the MDF machine bed as a workbench and the LED right as a light source. I had not hooked any other plugs into sockets on the Blackbox. I was just assembling switches to mounts and crimping connectors to wires and double checking with my multi-meter continuity of the switches so i would be sure to connect to NO on switch end and SIG and GND on the sockets that would eventually go into the blackbox. I heard a click (like a relay click or something similar) and looked over to see that my compputer had gone black, completely OFF. no other thing looked out of the ordinary.

    OK, all is disconnected from Blackbox, including power. I rebooted everything, plugged in USB and got an error;

    USB Device not recognized
    The last USB device you connected
    to this computer malfunctioned, and
    Windows does not recognize it.

    Unplugged USB then plugged it back in. This time no error, open control, it didnt show USB, disconnect, reconnect, it shows FTDI USB to Serial COM3 so i try to connect and get the same problem as before, Detect 3 ways, ERROR: No Supported Firmware detected need GRBL 1.1 etc screenshot attached, attempted connection a few times same each time.
     

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  7. Joe Geisler

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    sorry if i list with TOO MUCH detail, i know you want enough info to be able to recreate the problem if necessary. I appreciate the help and fast reponses.
     
    Peter Van Der Walt likes this.
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Unrelated but just for future reference, whether connected or not doesnt control stepper lock: $1=255 sets that: see gnea/grbl


    Awesome, was scared its the Bulkman one, they have surges over 60v!

    There's never such a thing as too much info! :) The more we know the better we can help you, what might not look like it relates can sometimes be an important clue

    So just before I send you over to https://openbuildspartstore.com/contact-us-form/ for a replacement, just one last test I need (about to run out for the weekend but will try and check in on you tomorrow):

    In CONTROL go to Wizards and Tools > Grbl Flashing tool: Just try reflashing firmware two or three times. Check the serial log, it will say success or fail. Maybe you had a brownout that knocked the firmware off it. If that still fails, reach out to https://openbuildspartstore.com/contact-us-form/ referencing a link to this thread please

    Thanks for your patience, was really hoping to see "something" that caused it - else its always worrying if a replacement will suffer the same fate if you don't find the cause. They do get a tonne of testing prior to shipping, so its remote that it just "broke" - always nicer to find a cause like known low quality PSU, or the old oops I shorted V+ to GND, or something telltale that can be addressed to prevent a repeat. Sadly here nothing stands out, so just be careful if you do need a replacement (if firmware reflash doesnt take)

    Lastly, as you might be taking it apart soon anyway, check the boards for any visible damage? (might still help us with post mortem)
     
  9. Joe Geisler

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    OK, attempted flashing 3,4,5,...8 times. no joy, :( , ok, i will contact the link you provided and while i wait for them I will open Blackbox and bust out the forensic tools. ... Magnifying lens
     

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  10. Joe Geisler

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    BTW, no obvious burns, scorches, hot spots or smoke residue inso Blackbox so not sure ... I did read a post or 2 that mentioned bad USB cords though. I had already thought of that and tried the 3 I had but I also bought a brand new one (just a Wally world cheapo, only thing available locally) in case that could be part of the problem but even that didnt change the problem. Still waiting to hear back from support but it's a weekend so I assume they are enjoying the weekend.
     
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Yes, they will get back to you today for sure! :)
     
  12. Joe Geisler

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    Well, I received the new brain card yesterday and installed it today, YAY, my machine works. I was finally able to surface my spoilboard but I have found another problem. I noticed that my X axis is extremely weak compared to my other axis. (also, much quieter, even when loosing steps) I started with all pots at half range and adjusted up as needed to stop missed steps, the Y and Z axis ended up about 1/4 to 1/8 turn from max and work like a champ, but the X axis even when maxed out will start to miss steps when moving. everything will be fine and then it will just stop and buzz as it misses steps, if I let everything sit for awhile it will start working again. I thought something was binding up but when I power down I can turn the drive screw easily by hand. Also, when energized the other steppers are locked and can not be turned by hand, but I can actually turn the X axis stepper by hand when energized.I can feel that it is energized but it is weak. I have checked the wiring connections in case something was wired wrong but it looked normal, so I disconnected the wiring at each connect and reconnected everything in case i was clamped down on insulation instead of wire, still the same result. inspected all wheels, blocks, and Cbeam on X axis and no obstructions or binding. finally swapped the X and Z axis connectors and with my 1.5KW spindle mounted the X driver can hold it in place but not raise it. Now it doesnt always happen, I did manage to surface my spoilboard but did stop once for about 7-10 minutes when I first heard it skip a step. at the end of the spoilboard surfacing I felt all the steppers and they were all very warm to the touch EXCEPT the X axis.
    I cant think of what else to check at this point. It appears that the X axis is faulty. Not sure if that occured when the brain failed or if it could have caused the brain to fail but I am patiently waiting to hear what you you think before I do anything else as I would hate to have the X driver cause something to go wrong on the new brain card I just got.
     
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    - As a test just swop around Y motor onto X and see if that's weak too?
    - Is you X motor different from the others? (bought from same place, same model?)
    Can you catch the buzz on video/audio? Might help to hear what it sounds like to figure out what it could be
     
  14. Joe Geisler

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    swapped Y and X and same thing, the Y will drive my X axis fine and sounds like a typical stepper when jogging. but if I try to jog the Y (X driver) above about 1200 mm/min it will sometimes miss steps and start to rack the axis.
     
  15. Joe Geisler

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    oh, sorry, yes the stepper motor is identical to the others. and I will send the video/audio soon.
     
  16. Joe Geisler

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    here is a short video of the X axis stalled out and skipping and I also jogged the Y axis so you can hear it, I have the jog speed set at 1000 mm/min. I had to lower it to 500 mm/min to get X to jog in either direction this time. it seems to be getting weaker each time.
     

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  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  18. Joe Geisler

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    will do, thank you once again, I love the quick efficient support provided here.
     
  19. RipMill

    RipMill New
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    Curious to see how you make out. I too purchased the dreaded bulkman kit ‍♂️. Mechanical only. They threw in nema 23 high torques as well.
    I did decide to get Blackbox and 24v Meanwell psu.
    Just finished mechanical build. Waiting on electronics and wires to ship.
    I am wondering whether to ditch these motors and
    get OB steppers from the get go.
    Thanks for the thread...all the best!
     
  20. Joe Geisler

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    I just received the new replacement muscle board and on Sunday (my first day off) I will do all my tests but I have already tested the blackbox, and even with 1 stepper acting real weak I was able to surface my spoilboard FAST and DEEP with little to no problem. I fought with Bulkman3d about my bad arduino card for a week of slow responses but with Openbuilds the few problems I have had have gotten immediate responses with helpful troubleshooting advice and then prompt shipment of replacement cards. I can not recommend them enough. Great service and support.
    As far as the steppers are concerned, the Blackbox will drive the Hogh Torque much easier than the arduino setup and should be fine but if the steppers act up at all then I have heard that OB's steppers are very high quality.
     
  21. RipMill

    RipMill New
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    Did you get the high torque as well? I looked up specs and compared to OB steppers. Same color wires...not same wiring order from what i can tell
     
  22. Joe Geisler

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    I dont remember if I have high torque, I kept going back and forth on it... gotta look it up. But if I had known I would be buying a blackbox I would definately go the high torques just because the blackbox can handle it where the arduino uno and its stepper board can barely handle normal steppers.
     
  23. Joe Geisler

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    Yes, looking at the order it looks like I did go high torque. 2.45nm steppers. The others were 1.3nm
     
  24. RipMill

    RipMill New
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    Same as mine. What was your wiring config for blackbox if you don’t mind?
     
  25. Joe Geisler

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    Umm, let me go look. Just got home from work.
     
  26. Joe Geisler

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    Looking at screw side of blackbox connector it is yellow blue red green
     
  27. RipMill

    RipMill New
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    Awesome, thanks! I will double check coils as well just in case
     

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