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Need help with Large Format Pellet 3D Printer Build Please!

Discussion in '3D printers' started by GreenCampuLtd, Feb 8, 2022.

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Should I go with Solution A, or Solution B?

  1. Solution A

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  2. Solution B

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  1. GreenCampuLtd

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    Greetings everyone, I hope this finds you all in excellent health :: vegan ?

    I am director of a company, Green Campus Ltd in the UK where I have been trying to 3D print large outdoor construction panels from a 100% non-toxic bio-composite that I have been cheerleading the development of. We hope to 3D print these panels and bolt them together to make little eco domes you can learn more about on the crowdfunding film of my site: create.green and see updates on the create.green/journal

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Following the crowdfunding campaign I am a proud owner of the industrial MDPH2 pellet extruder (MDPH2 - Pellet Head Extruder), 18lbs (8.39kg), for 3D printing from Massive Dimention. Recently, YouTuber 'Dr. D Flo' produced a video where he builds a gantry for this MDPH2 extruder from OpenBuilds C-Beam linear extrusions (ref: )


    I would very much like your help to identify the C-beam linear actuator parts that he uses to construct this gantry however I do not have the machining tool to make the custom corner parts that he uses. Could someone there please have a look at the video above which starts at about 15 mins 32 seconds in where he goes over the parts he uses for the build. Could someone please help me estimate how large a gantry I could build from these C-Beam Linear Actuators and 4 x z axis parts for the MDPH2 (18lbs or 8.39kg). I have seen you sell the C-beam linear actuators at 2000mm long! Would it be possible to have the X-Y gantry movement of this height?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    NB: we do not need the complicated print bed Dr. D Flo makes in his video!!! A simple board and Duet 3D's AutoBed Mesh Levelling will be absolutely fine with this size nozzle :: print bead!

    Please NB: I can only fit about 1500mm high z Gantry (total printer height) in my garage (building it in a marquee next to the sea was not such a good idea after all... !​

    Please could someone help me emulate what Dr. D Flo has done, replacing the custom corner joints that he has made in his printer with a solution you suggest for joining the right angles together? I need to put together a BOM for all the X, Y and Z axis + frame + joining fittings for the right angles (I have the rest)?

    I have long been wanting to connect my MDPH2 but could not afford a gantry solution until I saw this from you / Dr. D. In the mean time I have built this massive 1900x1600x1850 gantry but it is very lightweight and we have been pushing the limits of what such a lightweight pellet extruder (V3 of the Lily Pellet extruder is pushed to it's limits here, see images below) can do which has involved working with Duet's new 6HC robotics electronics. More information about the dowell to build here:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Duet 3D Forum: Dowell to Duet conversion thread
    Large Format Dowell to Duet conversion

    The only reason I mention the Dowell conversion is that option 2 for us is to modify this printer so that we replace the lightweight XY gantry here with the heavier duty C-Beam linear actuators and keep this frame and 4X Z axis and massive heated bed. This might save us costs but it's abit beyond me to work out how to do it.


    Is there a consultant anywhere with good experience with Openbuilds systems I can hire by the hour to help me produce the (opensource) autodesk fusion 360 drawings to help me work out what is the best move for us to either:

    Solution A: recreate a larger (2000x2000x1500 xyz if possible) version of Dr. D's printer (without the super complex bed)

    or

    Solution B: Modify the Dowell gantry replacing the existing belt driven x and y axis with heavier duty c-beams if possible.

    I'm quite on my own with this project / incarnation here so would really appreciate any help. Thanks so much for your time and I hope to hear from anyone with some experience here who is interested to help with the project. I do intent to make the plans and Duet files public and am developing it all in opensource forums like this and the firmware files / wiring diagrams Duet's forum (link above) so please advise.

    Yours sincerely,

    Charles

    Director
    Green Campus Ltd
    www.create.green
     
    #1 GreenCampuLtd, Feb 8, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
  2. GreenCampuLtd

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    I think option B, modifying it with something like this but I don't have much room for that massive joint between the X and Y axis. Is there a place to find the different Openbuilds parts to start laying out some plans on Fusion 360 pls?

     
  3. GreenCampuLtd

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    The longer axis (Y) rails are not C beam, they are square which would save space, so would the metal plates that fit the X to the Y axi. I could do them on the inside of the Y rails so this XY gantry could fit into the Dowell frame. I will come up with a drawing of that.

    OpenBuilds Workbee 1050 (40" x 20")

     
  4. GreenCampuLtd

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    This is more like it:

     
  5. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Our modular build system has tonnes of generic parts in the catalog: See for example
    That would be C-Beam® Tension XL Linear Actuator Bundle (for 1500mm axes) or C-Beam® XLarge Linear Actuator Bundle (for 250-1000mm axes)


    See How to calculate V-Slot® deflection and expect to add suitable crossbracing - corner hardware alone won't suffice and I expect Dr-D will have to add some for of cross braces or panels to stiffen up his structure in future episodes too

    CAD first... No one will be able to give you a partslist off the top of our heads - CAD out your design in as much detail as possible, down to the last screw like we do for the Sketchup models of our Assemblies - then you can export BOMs with ease

    Or option C: Start from scratch - all our assemblies and components are here: OpenBuilds | 3D Warehouse , Sketchup is easy to learn and use, and building our your own design in CAD, welcome to post that here for feedback as you go along so we can help look for weak spots, is probably better as it will allow you to put the image in your head into reality (Rather than someone else's plans) and is invaluable as a learning exercise. Building stuff with the Modular Build System is quite easy after all - you can do it!
     
  6. GreenCampuLtd

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    Thanks so much for the above, there is some very helpful stuff therein! OpenBuilds is AMAZING!

    Watching the OpenBuilds Youtube Channel I have found two ready kits that look suitable, The Sphynx and The WorkBee (see below). I have drawn up a model of my exisiting frame using Autodesk Fusion 360 and these solutions fit well all I need is slightly longer beams / screws. I have written the below email to the openbuilds team:


    Dear friends at OpenBuilds

    Please can you provide me with rough cost and lead time for the OpenBuilds Sphynx or WorkBee configuration please but with only:

    1. X C-beam linear actuator with trolly for the extruder + Nema 23, 1470mm length beam, not including the dimensions of the motors & fittings on the end).

    2. Y C-beam linear actuators with 1900mm long beams the WorkBee metal joint between the x and y axis (same on both systems) + Nema 23 not including the motors and fittings at the end

    As per below diagram / this Fusion 360 file: Fusion

    Please NB: I do not need X axis or frame components.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Yours sincerely,

    Charles
     
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  7. GreenCampuLtd

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    Dear Peter,

    The sales team tell me that the Sphynx and Workbee kits are no longer being sold although they are available for sale on the website which is confusing. These kits have all I need already set out so it would be great to just use the BOM from these kits for a 1500 1500 c beam X-Y gantry rather than having to do it all again.

    Also the repository you directed me to was empty: OpenBuilds | 3D Warehouse

    Do you have any Autodeskfusion 360 compatable files please?
    Perhaps you could host your repository on: PARTcommunity 2D/3D Models

    Many thanks
    Charles

    p.s: The deflection of a single C-Beam is well within acceptable tollerances. Thats a great tool, thanks so much!

    Simply supported beam with a concentrated load
    Deflection X 0.76 mm
    Deflection Y 0.16 mm​
     
    #7 GreenCampuLtd, Feb 10, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2022
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Works for me, try again

    upload_2022-2-10_17-0-45.png

    Yes, see Transmission - Lead Screws & Nut Blocks - OpenBuilds Part Store and Linear Rail

    Fusion opens Sketchup Files - we haven't ported the complete library but some are available here too OpenBuilds® | CAD Models | GrabCAD

    Yes, but your request contains some requests that cannot be delivered upon, thus the feedback. You wanted some 1900mm Actuators, etc for example. Our leadscrews are only available up to 1540mm (for our 1500mm actuators) so they cannot provide pricing to you as those lengths are not an option - we don't even have longer lengths in stock.

    You also don't really want to exceed 1500mm: How to calculate V-Slot® deflection along with leadscrew whip. For 1500mm you'd also have to use the Tensioning system or the leadscrew whip will be unbearable: See C-Beam® Tension XL Linear Actuator Bundle

    There are design constrains you have to consider. If you need a machine, order the machine. If you want to have custom sizes and lengths, and removing axes, etc - use the store to add the seperate components to your cart. Its a modular build system, you can order individual components, single axis actuators, or complete machines
     
  9. GreenCampuLtd

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    So sorry I am not trying to be annoying I am just painfully stupid and I thank you retroactively and in advance for your patience!

    I didn't realise the lead screw had no special ends. This saves my life in a few ways. I can just order the longer beams and screws and cut them to the requred length myself right?

    I'm going to do as you recommend and assemble a model of the whole printer in F360 copying your models and check back with you, if I may, that I havn't missed any bits.

    Many thanks
    Charles
     
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  10. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Correct! It's all very hobbyist friendly, and getting them in hand will help your design process


    Always welcome, we much prefer checking a CAD model and advising on weaknesses before a build commences - less frustration to the builder than way

    PS: Spend a little side-screen-time on our YouTube channel - seeing how the actuators are put together etc - - great learning material
     
  11. GreenCampuLtd

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  12. GreenCampuLtd

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  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  14. GreenCampuLtd

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    Hi there, I have been trying for hours to upload the skp file to fusion 360 and it crashes every time. I've tried multiple ways on Mac and PC but no luck.

    Is there any way someone who knows the build could have a look at the parts list and take off the following parts:

    1. Remove Z axis and all parts for that, leaving the X trolly

    2. Remove one of the C-beams for the x axis (the one without the lead screw in it) and all parts for that.

    3. Remove the frame the Y gantries are on and all fittings for that.

    4. Remove all electronics except for the motors.

    And send me a bill please?)
     
  15. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Just use Sketchup itself, all the parts are available in Sketchup: See Sketchup Make 2017 (Last free version)
     
  16. GreenCampuLtd

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    Oki so I edited the WorkBee in Sketchup and here is that file (attached). Please can you help me derrive the parts list from that?

    The beams that connect the Y actuators were not included in my original model trying to work out if the gantry would fit in my existing frame. With a 80x40 beam it no longer fits. So I need to increase the height of my frame but I can do that.

    Many thanks
    Charles
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. GreenCampuLtd

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    This chap uses rails on the sides of the C-Beam instead of the wheels which would allow me to fit the C-beams into my existing frame. I wonder do you guys sell such rails / wheels please? Many thanks, Charles

     
  18. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  19. GreenCampuLtd

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    Thank you again!

    Just to check, this kind of linear actuator...

    C-Beam® Linear Actuator Bundle

    ...where the wheels are on the inside of the C-Beam, and thus can fit onto our frame, is suitable for the task of mounting a 1.5m C-Beam + 9kg extruder atop? You wouldn't recommend we go with those rigid rails as I shared with you in the previous post?

    Also may I ask if these C-beams with said "tidy trolly" come in 1500mm as on the links provided there they do not. I assume these c-beams, screws and tensioners are just the same as the ones in the 1500mm kits just the trolly configuration is different.

    Many thanks again for your time
    Charles
     
  20. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    The "kit version" does not come in 1500mm with the non-XL plate, but as mentioned before, it is a modular system. C-Beam + 1540mm Leadscrew + Tension kit components + the right endplates for the Tensioning system - and then any of the C-Beam carriages (not trolleys) can be used. The tension system has no dependence on the carriage: See Plates - C-Beam Plates - OpenBuilds Part Store and select the one you want to use

    Yes, the Mini's should handle 9kg - if the lack of overhang from the plate helps your design to come together better its a good change.

    C-Beam Gantry Kit is a gantry plate kit for the one you linked to, with the accesories
     
  21. GreenCampuLtd

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    Dear Sir , I am in a better financial position to continue this project. I have added three XL linear actuator kits to my basket. Just a couple of issues:

    1. Two of these linear actuators come with a different trolly / cart kit than needed. As previously discussed I need the cart with the wheels running on the inside of the c-beam. for the two Y axis rails. Is it possible to order a kit with this trolly please?

    2. I cant find end plates that allow me to connect from these two cart plates to the X axis c-beam. Coul you please help me identify some or should I cut / design my own based on the workerbee plates?

    3. I would need to cut down the Y gantry and lead screw by a few CM. Is this okay to do? Will the lead screw still fit in the lock collar if it is cut down a few cm or does it have a special taperd end? Many thanks, Charles
     
  22. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    They are called Carriages, best to ask the store about custom orders (Go to Support > New ticket option) - make sure to include links to the carriages you want instead so the store staff can understand better


    Checkout some examples for either the Files and Drawings tabs of the Actuator Builds on the Builds tab above, or the Machine bundles - OpenBuilds's system is a lot like lego and you can put almost anything onto almost anything with the additional of standard catalog parts - how exactly depends on your specific design (best planned in CAD)
    You can of course machine custom plates for yourself too

    No tapers, machining on the leadscrews - you can cut them. Do watch the assembly videos of the actuators you are interested in now, so you have an idea of how they go together
     
  23. GreenCampuLtd

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    Thanks so much! I’ll do that with the store, thanks.

    I think I will emulate the attached setup but with the mini ‘carriages’.

    Great news about the screws!
    Many thanks

    Charles
     

    Attached Files:

  24. GreenCampuLtd

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    Do you think this system would be suitable for a 13.84kg extruder? Many thanks, Charles
     
  25. GreenCampuLtd

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    Excuse me sir, I have tried about 20 times and that ticket form does not work. it always says capture error. Please can I have an email of someone in sales re:


    Greetings



    I would like to order three of the 1500mm XL C-beam linear actuator kits but for two of them, that will be used for the Y axis, I need to have the mini double wide carriage that runs along the inside rail of the c-beam [ this one I think Double Wide Gantry Kit ] instead of the carriage that comes as standard with the kit [ C-Beam Tension XL Linear Actuator Bundle ].



    Could I please have two 1500mm kits with the specified custom double wide gantry cart and one 1500mm kit with the standard cart?



    Please can I also have the extrusions and components necessary to join the Y axis plates to the X axis gantry as indicated in the below picture?



    Many thanks



    Charles
     

    Attached Files:

  26. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Email: contact at Openbuildspartstore.com

    Catcha errors usually relate to script or adblock plugins in your browser
     
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  27. GreenCampuLtd

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    I dont have this issues on any other site. I'm doing it over email now though. Thanks for providing the link.

    Do you think this system would be suitable for a 13.84kg extruder? Many thanks, Charles
     
  28. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    A typical CNC spindle comes in around 1-4kg.
    13kg would deflect differently from our standard configs yes, see How to calculate V-Slot® deflection

    If your 13.8k extruder is what I think it is, checkout Dr-D Flo's video:

     
  29. GreenCampuLtd

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    Thanks I referenced that at the start of the thread. The MDPH2 is the one I have and it's 8.39kg with negligable deflection. The MDPE10 has 5 times more output and weighs 13.8kg with a deflection of:

    X 1.19
    Y 0.25

    Is there a way to re-enforce the X gantry so the load of the tool is spread over two C-beams you have seen?

    Many thanks

    Charles
     
  30. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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