Separate names with a comma.
Some features disabled for guests. Register Today.
Discussion in '3D printers' started by evilc66, Jul 27, 2016.
Larger format FDM printer using C-Beam linear stages
That is dead flat?
The PEI? It will be as flat as the surface you mount it to.
The last few boards that I got had bad solder points that made it so that one or more of the stepper motors wouldn't move. As a habit now, I just add solder to any point on the board that looks like it needs it.
I did notice that the quality of the soldering for the driver IC's was not all that good. Looks like they had been hand soldered as they were crooked and not quite centered. I may just bring the board into work and reflow them myself just to make sure.
Well, I don't use tape or clips I use Gino Pads so it needs to be dead flat on its own and no sagging between the pads.
I would apply the PEI to glass, then put the glass on the pads if that's what you prefer for mounting.
I never had any problems with PLA, or ABS, adhering directly to the boro so I will try just that before I have to spend about 100 dollars for both with shipping. 300x300 boro is not cheap that I could find.
This... this is how a print should come out
This was the first successful print I have made so far. Everything else I aborted not too long after it started due to a multitude of issues, one of which was purely communication based. I was having a hell of a time getting Repetier and the Smoothieboard to play nice with each other, regardless of the physical connection type. Turns out that Repetier doesn't play nice with Smoothieware and you have to turn on ping-pong communication over USB for it to work. Ethernet just flat out doesn't work with it. I've been very tempted to try out Simplify3D and may just bite the $150 bullet now that I know that the system as a whole works.
The other secret to getting this first print to work was finally getting the limit switches hooked up. Without them, the machine would always move higher in the Z axis than intended, even though the Z-axis was manually zeroed before the print started. Guess this just forced me to get off my *** and get it done, and I'm glad I did.
Layer alignment is perfect. There's no ringing, no overshoot on the corners. Granted, this is to be expected from a rigid lead screw based machine, but it's still nice to see The top layer didn't come out the best, so I'll have to investigate that one. There's a little blobbing on the starting corner, but that's probably just a retract setting. Other than that, I'm stocked for how well this first print turned out.
And there's my sad little Two-Up looking thoroughly defeated as it sits next to it's C-Beam overlord. It served me well, but it's met its match.
I still need to neaten up the wiring a bit, but it's now fully functional! I got the new Sunon fan installed yesterday for the part cooler. Very quiet, and should be very reliable (based on my previous experience with Sunon fans). Now comes down to tweaking everything so that I can start bumping the speed up. The test cube was run at about 40mm/s. I'd like to be able to double that. Baby steps though.
I forgot to mention, that 750W heater for the heat bed works REALLY well. If I turn the bed on (60C) and the hot end on (195C) at the same time, the bed beats it handily. It heats up fast, which is impressive considering how much thermal mass that aluminum plate has. The only downside is that when it hits it's target temperature and pwm's to maintain, the LED shop light I have over the workbench flickers. It's not annoying, but it's noticeable.
I wish these were larger.
I was just adding up my screw count and I have to say that just for M5x8mm that I need 200 of them just for the corners and joining plates alone. OUCH!
Sorry, you wish what was larger?
Yeah, the screws add up pretty quick.
The pictures so I could really zoom in on the parts but all you can do is get a little bigger by clicking them.
What sucks is how much these screws are a piece but is M5x8mm long enough for the 4mm thick join plates (5 screws each one)?
Huh. Guess Photobucket clips the image size on upload. I'll crop them so it's just the cube so you can see more detail.
On to good news though. Running at 60mm/s right now and things are looking good. Had to dial accelleration back a fair bit, but it's not hurting anything.
Let's see if these work any better for you (cropped from the original image, not the Photobucket one)
I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure that the 8mm screws are long enough for the 4mm plates. 10mm screws bottom out on the extrusion.
If you would check but what do I use for these corner brackets since they are far from 4mm thick (I believe they are 3mm thick)?
btw, those prints a freaking AWESOME!! Well done.
Thanks I'm pretty happy with the way it's turning out. I decided to go for broke yesterday and print a Yoda bust (I know, I know). It came out awesome. There were a couple of droops on areas that had pretty severe overhangs (chin, tips of the ears), but I wasn't printing with support, so it's expected. The print quality absolutely smoked the best that the Two-Up ever produced.
And you shouldn't be worried about the flatness of the PEI (if you ever decide to try it). The bottom of the print is so flat that it creates a little vacuum between it and the desk when you lift it. The tooling plate helps, but it's still very flat.
The machined corner brackets use 8mm screws on both sides. The cast corner brackets need one 8mm and one 10mm unless you shave off the nub that's on one side. I'll check on the flat plates tonight. I ended up just ordering a pile of screws of different sizes when I started this build, so it's all a blur at this point
Oh, wow 10mm too? 50 corner brackets and 20 plates then the odds and ends to hold motor mounts and my printed parts.
My deal isn't the PEI being dead flat it is the fact of tape is never dead flat and PEI doesn't weigh enough to stop ripples so may have valleys and hills. Since I need glass anyway I might as well try it first but, as I said previously, my boro suddenly stopped allowing any plastic to adhere to it and has never worked since.
3M 468MP (what is commonly used to stick PEI down) is a transfer adhesive (5.2mils/0.13mm thick). What that means is that it has no substrate adding thickness. It's a pure sheet of adhesive. The only way you would get ripples is if the surface you are putting it on has ripples, you have contaminants on the surfaces to adhere, or you really botch up the application (not all that hard to do considering how thin the stuff is). I'm not trying to push you into using this stuff. Just trying to make sure you have a good understanding of everything involved before you go one way or another.
Ahhhh, in the pictures they make it look thick like double sided tape.
Nah. It's just the backing paper. They are thicker than the adhesive!
This is my first post.
Recently started building a C Beam CNC and I really like this type of material.
After searching for a 3D printer design I decided to go for this one.
Looks very clean and simple to bolt together.
I have been reading all the info and found that you stated that the reduction would be an improvement. In the meantime this plate is available again. Is it worth it?
And on which axis, Z only or ….
I have also seen that someone put an extra bearing in the plate to support the acme screw.
Probably apply this mod too.
My Solution to Belt Reduction Issues
I haven't used the reduction plates on this machine, as I don't actually need reduction. I was hoping to use the plates to speed up the axes (X and Y) by using the plates, and swapping the pulley ratios. I haven't done anything with that as of yet, as I'm still tweaking the printer to increase it's speed. I'm at 60mm/sec right now, and I'm not at the limit of the screws just yet. I'll be happy to get 100mm/sec, and I think I can get that without resorting to a speed multiplier. Anything beyond that will need it.
The only place I'm going to use a belt reduction setup is on the Z axis of the LCD based resin printer I'm building. Fine resolution will be critical here.
First, I am impressed by your creation. I was looking for a 3D printer and yours answers all criteria I had on my list (for a newbie who read too much on the subject). I want precision and repeatability. Speed, for now, is not really a concern. I have a friend's 3D printer at home but I didn't want my machine to be mostly printed.
I've put together the list of items that I could find that you discussed in the thread together in the below message with links to them. I hope that this is OK with you and that I did not do something that shouldn't be done. I like it when everything is in one place for easy reference for others (and me). If you find it useful (and that it is not missing too many things), please feel free to put this on the main page of your build.
This is what I got so far:
The parts list (all parts from Openbuilds unless otherwise noted):
4x 500mm C-Beam Linear Actuators w/NEMA 23 motors - C-Beam™ Linear Actuator Bundle
2x 500mm 20x80 V-Slot - V-Slot® Linear Rail
3x 500mm 20x60 V-Slot - V-Slot® Linear Rail
2x 90 degree joining plates - 90 Degree Joining Plate
2x "T" brackets (Misumi part) - Sheet Metals -For HFS5 Series- -T-Shaped-｜MISUMI｜MISUMI USA
2x 120mm 45 degree brace extrusions (Misumi part) - HFS8 Series, Brackets for Reinforcement｜MISUMI｜MISUMI USA
16x cast corner brackets - Cast Corner Bracket
A pile of M5 screws and t-nuts – at least 66 M5 screws and at least 44 t-nuts - this is based on me looking at the pictures posted! There may be an error in this count.
Various spacers for build plate, Y-axis mount, etc... - Clarity around this would be appreciated
1x 12"x12"x1/4" cast aluminum tool plate (eBay) - MIC-6 CAST TOOLING ALUMINUM PLATE 1/4" x 12" x 12" | eBay
material for Y-axis mount (I used carbon fiber that I had laying around, but dealer's choice) - https://www.amazon.com/200X300X3-0M...1481940643&sr=8-8&keywords=carbon+fiber+sheet
300mmx300mm 750W 120v AC heater mat (with SSR) (Amazon) - Amazon.com: 300 X 300mm (approx. 12" X 12") 120V 750W, KEENOVO Universal Flexible Silicone Heater Mat/Pad, 3D Printer Heated Bed Heating Element: Office Products or https://www.amazon.com/Controller-K...=1481940231&sr=8-1&keywords=keenovo+120V+750W with temperature controller
12"x12" PEI sheet (Amazon) - Amazon.com: Sheet, PEI, Amber, 0.040 T, 12x12 In: Home Improvement or Amazon.com: PEI (Polyetherimide) Sheet, Opaque Off-White, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D5205 PEI0113: Industrial & Scientific
E3D Titan extruder (Filastruder, but there are other options) - Amazon.com: E3D Titan Universal Extruder: Industrial & Scientific
E3D v6 hot end (24v) (Filastruder, but there are other options) - Amazon.com: E3D V6 All-Metal HotEnd Full Kit - 1.75mm Universal (with Bowden add-on) (24V): Industrial & Scientific
Smoothieboard x5 (Uberclock) - Smoothieboard 5x – Uberclock
Optional GLCD Shield - Smoothieboard GLCD Shield – Uberclock
Sunon 50x50x10mm cooling fan: https://www.amazon.com/SUNON-10mm-C...UTF8&qid=1481949665&sr=8-2&keywords=sunon+fan
In researching this, I saw that OpenBuild has some items on back order (BO), namely the 500mm C-Beam with motors.
Do you have a CAD file of your design? I wanted to make one but if you have one, that would be great. If not, I'll make one in Fusion360.
Could you please let me(us) know what filament you are using and sourcing? I keep reading that not all filament are created equal and seeing your results, I would love to learn from you. I am also planning on using some carbonfiber filament as well as metal containing filament as I want to integrate this into my amplifiers cases for the amps I build.
Finally, would it be possible for you to post pictures with explanations of your smoothieboard setup? That is the board I have also but am using it for my OX CNC machine. As a newbie, seeing all the wiring, where it goes and the config file for the smoothieboard would be great for me.
Thank you again for this great build. I will be starting to amass the parts necessary. I hope you won't mind additional questions as I start this build.
Hi Guys, stumbled across this thread and saw several mentions of the PrintBite surface I offer for sale. Thought it worthwile offering some info for better awareness and understanding (it is not intended as an advert). I did post something a few days ago but deleted as I like the quiet life, but in the back of my mind I kept thinking I should have left it posted.
PrintBite is an epoxy/glass thermoset laminate. This is not to be confused with normal grade FR4 that one can buy off the shelf. Our material is unique to us, and modified to our specification. The result is a material that promotes adhesion of 3d printed materials by way of intermolecular bonding when hot, releasing when cold, without use of substrates of any kind.
PEI is a thermoplastic, where adhesion occurs due to a partial fusing of the deposited material to the PEI. This is why some (not all) people report that parts can be difficult to remove, and why some people report having to sand the PEI surface to clean it up a bit after extended use. Whilst both materials (PrintBite and PEI) work very well, PrintBite does have a wider material compatibility as it will accept Nylons and Polycarbs PETs and others that are reported not to work as well with PEI. We offer PrintBite because it simply works, it provides choice to consumers. There is no magic bullet for a bed material per say, it took a lot of effort and testing to achieve our end product. That beng said, having both PEI and PrintBite in your toolbox will leave you well equipped.
PrintBite comes with an unbranded (3M equivalent) hi temp acrylic adhesive already applied. Its seriously sticky stuff. We built a small rig to apply it to PB, so you dont have to. It can be a right royal pita to do this otherwise. PrintBite is aimed at being a permanent surface that wont need replacement when used with care, and the simple instructions followed.
So long as you dont eat your chips off it, or let the cat sleep on it, you shouldnt even need to clean the surface. Simply pick up the printed objects (without touching the surface with fingers), and hit print again. If you do contaminate with finger grease (or a cat), then a quick wipe with a kitchen towel lightly damped with small amount of Windex, kitchen surface cleaner, soapy water or acetone will put things right.
I hope the info above helps to clarify any doubts, as mentioned at the start its not meant to be an advert, just offered for info/accuracy.
Yup ill second this. However if you only have 10mm screws, 2 washers should leave you clear from bottoming out. Also those corner brackets are available as 40mm versions aswell. the one shown is a 20mm bracket. The 40mm brackets can be fixed with 2 screws on each face giving greater rigidity.
You seem to have most, if not all of the parts listed correctly. I would order more screws and t-nuts than you think you will need though, as they always seem to get used.
As for the heater mat, you can order it either way. Personally, I wanted the controller to deal with the temperature control so that I can just hit go on the host software and not have to worry if I turned on the heater for the bed or not.
I don't think you need to go with 4x of the Misumi "T" brackets. The Z axis is plenty rigid with only two and the 45 degree supports. There's no harm in using 4 though.
It may take me a little while to get a shot of the Smoothieboard setup, as the printer is a little buried due to the bathroom remodel that is consuming the garage right now. The remodel is going well, so we are slowly clearing space as we go. I should be able to get a shot of it after the new year, so don't let me forget
As for the CAD models, I have a rough Solidworks model that I can post, but it doesn't have any hardware in it at the moment, and the details for the extruder mount and the Y-axis aren't complete. I'll see what I can do about updating that over the holidays (if I end up finding some time).
Thanks for the clarification @mutley. Maybe one of these days when I decide to try out some more exotic materials (after enclosing the printer) I'll give PrintBite a try.
Hello @evilc66 ,
Thank you for the answers.
For the 3D CAD model, it's OK. I found that I can use parts that were done by others on Openbuilds at Parts | OpenBuilds and will build it from there in Fusion360.
If you have a chance after your remodel and all other activities, some guidance on the filament you use and your settings in the program you use would be great to have.
Thank you again.
For filament, I have been using Hatchbox. I've had better luck with it than some other budget brands. I'm not really feeling all that inclined to try more expensive filaments unless they can guarantee better results, but so far I'm happy with the Hatchbox quality (PLA and ABS).
As for machine settings, I didn't do anything fancy. Right now, I'm using most of the default settings that Simplify3D gave for the generic profile (60mm/s X/Y travel), and it's working pretty well. I'm still adjusting the machine, so I may up those speeds as I get more confident with the capabilities.
Firmware wise, I only set up the steps per millimeter for each axis, the thermistor types for the hot end and the heated bed (heated bed was custom, as they don't have a profile for the Keenovo thermistor, but I can provide details on that), and that was about it. The SSR is still using the default output for the heat bed, and the hot end fan is wired to be on all the time that the controller is (didn't see a need to control it).