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Hard limit triggered Alarm - OB Control Failure

Discussion in 'Control Software' started by KaosCNC, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    I am using the OB Control with BlackBox controller. Drivers are updated and current version of OB Control installed on my Acer Iconia W700p Windows Tablet.

    Today I have been trying to run a surfacing job and I started getting the Hard Limit errors and now I just noticed that OB Control display for all axis is way off and the UI is off too probably because the giant numbers displayed.

    I have no idea where to trouble shoot. I am running CNC4newbie New Carve 1045 with a Makita RT701c router. I also have a POWERTEC DC5370 1hp dust collector running.

    I am guessing this is EMI but I have no idea and not sure how to go about troubleshooting.

    Like I said it has happened before intermittently but today every time I start a job it gets part way through and then it just throws the error or the OB Control software bugs out.
     

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  2. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Have you earthed your dust collector hose?
    Alex.
     
  3. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    Earthed ?
     
  4. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Dust flowing rapidly through a non-conductive plastic hose build up enormous amounts of static. You need a copper wire - wrapped around the outside is easier, but inside is more effective - connected to an earth point - NOT the ground on your control electronics, but a true earth. Your mains circuit has an earth connection which you can utilise.
    Alex.
     
  5. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    I just tried running it again and I had the collector off till the very end and then the OB Control software went wonky again. I've never had this before this much. I am wondering if the surfacing might have anything to do with it - causing more static? I am using a 1 1/2" Amana surfacing bit. I will go hunt down some wire tomorrow. My tubing is rather short so I think I should be able to run it inside and then I have seen on Youtube where people ground it to the dust collector itself, I.e. screw on the outside metal part. Where the hose connects to my boot I don't have a clamp as it fits very snug and I like taking it off to do other clean up after a job runs, etc.

    However, today is the first day where I seen OB control screen get all wonky.

    Could this issue be anything else? I understand process of elimination but just asking.
     

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  6. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    Could worn out brushes from the Makita RT701c cause more interference?

    What about how things plugged into mains? My set up I have the OB Blackbox/PSU, Makita RT 701c, and the tablet plugged into the same power strip.
     
  7. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    All my stepper and limit switch wiring came from OpenBuilds.

    I'll try the grounding tomorrow but I am feeling like that the OB Control Software issue may be something else.... Wonder what Peter would have to say about this?
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    I'm saying EMI; CONTROL doesnt deal with the limits, only Grbl does. The errors we show is just forwarded from grbl, we just display it.
    -Route limit wiring away from AC/Motor/Power wiring
    -Eliminate EMI sources nearby
    -Check for actual wiring shorts (maybe it isnt EMI triggering it, maybe theres a little strand of wire poking out of a terminal somewhere that shorts to the one next to it from vibration)
    -Ferrite cores always help

    Yes, but we have basic switches, and awesome Xtension Limit Switch Kit with built in EMI filtering. Which one do you have? If not Xtension Limits, its worth the upgrade
     
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  9. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Yes, it can only fit 5 digit numbers (99,999mm = pretty big CNC already)
    Why yours is that far off is either
    - EMI corrupting USB comms
    - Odd Gcode (maybe something ran G10 commands and set a huge offset)
    - Totally incorrrect firmware settings (show us your "$$" output, copy paste from serial console tab)
     
  10. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    I'd say the wonky display is also EMI interfering with the connection between your computer and the display. Better to attach the earth wire from your dust collection hose at the end furthest from your cnc - you want to bleed the static away from the area where your sensitive electronics are - not dump it into the framework of the machine.
    Alex.
     
  11. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    here is the information display in the console:

    [07:59:12] [ 3D Viewer ] WebGL Support found! success: this application will work optimally on this device!

    [07:59:13] [ Websocket ] Bidirectional Websocket Interface Started

    [07:59:14] [ update ] Checking for Updates

    [07:59:14] [ update ] You are already running OpenBuilds CONTROL 1.0.215

    [07:59:20] [ connect ] PORT INFO: Port is now open: COM4 - Attempting to detect Firmware

    [07:59:20] [ connect ] Checking for firmware on COM4

    [07:59:20] [ connect ] Detecting Firmware: Method 1 (Autoreset)

    [07:59:21] [ connect ] Detecting Firmware: Method 2 (Ctrl+X)

    [07:59:22] [ connect ] Detecting Firmware: Method 3 (others that are not supported)

    [07:59:22] [ ] Grbl 1.1g ['$' for help]

    [07:59:22] [ ] [MSG:'$H'|'$X' to unlock]

    [07:59:23] [ [external from hardware] ] OpenBuilds CONTROL received a FEEDHOLD notification from Grbl: This could be due to someone pressing the HOLD button (if connected), or DriverMinder on the xPROv4 detected a driver fault

    [07:59:24] [ connect ] Firmware Detected: grbl version 1.1g on COM4

    [08:01:58] [ ] Grbl 1.1g ['$' for help]

    [08:01:58] [ ] [MSG:'$H'|'$X' to unlock]

    [08:01:58] [ ] [MSG:Caution: Unlocked]

    [08:01:58] [ ] ok

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $0=10 ;Step pulse time, microseconds

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $1=255 ;Step idle delay, milliseconds

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $2=0 ;Step pulse invert, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $3=0 ;Step direction invert, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $4=1 ;Invert step enable pin, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $5=0 ;Invert limit pins, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $6=0 ;Invert probe pin, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $10=1 ;Status report options, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $11=0.020 ;Junction deviation, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $12=0.002 ;Arc tolerance, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $13=0 ;Report in inches, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $20=0 ;Soft limits enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $21=1 ;Hard limits enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $22=1 ;Homing cycle enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $23=3 ;Homing direction invert, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $24=100.000 ;Homing locate feed rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $25=1000.000 ;Homing search seek rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $26=250 ;Homing switch debounce delay, milliseconds

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $27=5.000 ;Homing switch pull-off distance, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $30=1000 ;Maximum spindle speed, RPM

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $31=0 ;Minimum spindle speed, RPM

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $32=0 ;Laser-mode enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $100=133.333 ;X-axis steps per millimeter

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $101=133.330 ;Y-axis steps per millimeter

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $102=200.236 ;Z-axis steps per millimeter

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $110=2500.000 ;X-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $111=2500.000 ;Y-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $112=2500.000 ;Z-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $120=150.000 ;X-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $121=150.000 ;Y-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $122=150.000 ;Z-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $130=1000.000 ;X-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $131=1000.000 ;Y-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $132=100.000 ;Z-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] ok

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $0=10 ;Step pulse time, microseconds

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $1=255 ;Step idle delay, milliseconds

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $2=0 ;Step pulse invert, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $3=0 ;Step direction invert, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $4=1 ;Invert step enable pin, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $5=0 ;Invert limit pins, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $6=0 ;Invert probe pin, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $10=1 ;Status report options, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $11=0.020 ;Junction deviation, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $12=0.002 ;Arc tolerance, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $13=0 ;Report in inches, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $20=0 ;Soft limits enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $21=1 ;Hard limits enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $22=1 ;Homing cycle enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $23=3 ;Homing direction invert, mask

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $24=100.000 ;Homing locate feed rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $25=1000.000 ;Homing search seek rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $26=250 ;Homing switch debounce delay, milliseconds

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $27=5.000 ;Homing switch pull-off distance, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $30=1000 ;Maximum spindle speed, RPM

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $31=0 ;Minimum spindle speed, RPM

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $32=0 ;Laser-mode enable, boolean

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $100=133.333 ;X-axis steps per millimeter

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $101=133.330 ;Y-axis steps per millimeter

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $102=200.236 ;Z-axis steps per millimeter

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $110=2500.000 ;X-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $111=2500.000 ;Y-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $112=2500.000 ;Z-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $120=150.000 ;X-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $121=150.000 ;Y-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $122=150.000 ;Z-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $130=1000.000 ;X-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $131=1000.000 ;Y-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] $132=100.000 ;Z-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [08:01:59] [ $$ ] ok

    [08:01:59] [ $I ] [VER:1.1g.20181112:CUSTOM]

    [08:01:59] [ $I ] [OPT:V,15,128]

    [08:01:59] [ $I ] ok

    [08:01:59] [ $I ] [VER:1.1g.20181112:CUSTOM]

    [08:01:59] [ $I ] [OPT:V,15,128]

    [08:01:59] [ $I ] ok
     
  12. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    here is what my set up looks like.

    i don't see any stray wires

    the limit switches came with the cnc4newbie kit

    so you can see my set up where my tablet is and the dust collection (its in my garage so I have limited space)
    dust collector is on different breaker than the one running the cnc and pc
    i also have a mini split for heat above the dust collector and that runs on its own circuit
    not pictured is a wen air fliter that is in the center of the garage up near the ceiling
     

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  13. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    Today I will run a copper wire for the dust collector. I may have something that has a choke already and will try that on the USB cable feeding the controller from my tablet....

    I have ordered ferrite chokes and the Xtension limit switches
     
  14. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Upgrade to Xtension Limit Switch Kit or add RC filters as shown here to your existing switches: gnea/grbl refer to the section lower down related to "Improved noise filtering"
    (of course the Xtension Limits are the easier option, all the extra components are already onboard)

    Checkout Solving Endstop Woes With A Simple Analog Filter to understand why filtering helps
     
  15. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Where have you run the mains cable to your router? If it's in the drag chain or near low voltage wiring take it out and support it in the same way as you have your dust extraction hose.
    Alex.
     
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  16. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    Yes, the power to the router is in the cable chain. I will remove it too today.

    Peter do you feel all of this is EMI? Especially the OB Control issues that I see on the screen?

    Alex / Peter thank you for your help and guidance.
     
    Alex Chambers likes this.
  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Should be, no one else reports similar, grbl settings looks good.

    EMI corrupts serial data like this: (simplified example)

    Let say you send G10 P2 L20 X1000 Y1000 Z0
    What if during an EMI event the characters in [...] is dropped

    G10 P2 L20 X100[0 Y]1000 Z0

    Then Grbl thinks you sent

    G10 P2 L20 X100000 Z0

    See where a big number came from that shouldn't for example?
     
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  18. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    So I have ran a bare copper wire through the dust hose coming out at both ends. The end by the collector I have it screwed to the metal housing.

    Is this sufficient or should I have done it differently?

    Could it still build static and then cause me a shock or more if I touch that copper wire?

    I pulled out the router power cord from the drag chains and have it now running along side the collector hose.

    Is there a way to leave the router power cord in the chain but isolate or eliminate the EMI?

    I have not tried running it again. I thought I had some chokes on hand for the usb cable but I don't - will have to wait for my Amazon order.
     

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  19. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    You won't get a shock from the copper wire - it's connected to earth at one end. On mine I coiled the copper wire loosely and let it "spring" into the coils of the hose, then taped it to the hose (cleaning the dust off first obviously). You will now be bleeding any charge on the hose to earth, so the static build up on the hose will be significantly reduced. Voltages involved can be very high and upset sensitive electronics, but currents are minute and will not harm you. I suspect your router cable may have been the main problem. Some people succeed in running their router cable in the drag chain by replacing the router cable, limit switch wiring and even stepper motor cables with shielded cable. Before you go to those lengths I suggest you try it with the new arrangements to see if it has solved the problem.
    Alex.
     
  20. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC New
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    so after doing the grounding of the collector, moving the router mains cable out of the cable chain and adding some ferrite chokes to the end stops and to the USB cable I have not had any further problems with the hard limit being triggered or the OB Control software going wonky on me.

    Thx for your advice .
     

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