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Circles not completely perfect on a lead 1010

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Joshua Enos, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    I just got a brand new openbuilds lead 1010 machine and finished putting it together! I love the machine already but having some problems with circles and some other designs that are not perfect. I setup the steps and have looked over every little thing on the machine and the circles are not coming out like how the toolpath in vcarve is showing. Idk what could be causing it but would like to narrow down something since I have custom emblems to make and all of them are circle designs. 20190325_171552.jpg 20190325_134600.jpg 20190324_230348.jpg
     
  2. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    this is backlash in an axis or flexing in the router mount.
    as the tool travels through the material it is pushed sideways because it is rotating.
    so if it is travelling away from you (Y+) the rotation will push it left.
    you need to carefully consider your cut direction and what effect this push is having on the cut to figure out which axis has the backlash or flex. or maybe you can label your images with the X and Y axis directions then we can help you think about it.
     
  3. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Now how would I set the backlash on the y and x? I'll take a look at the z axis mount and then set the backlash on the z lead block.
     
  4. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Here is the how it was cut related to the x and y axis
     

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  5. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master, Openbuilds Team
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    Start at bit - any play in the spindle shaft, spindle mount, z axis (check eccentric adjustment), x axis fixings to Y gantry plates secure, eccentrics on ☓ axis. On a new machine anti backlash nuts should need little adjustment - single anti backlash nut adjust screw so it just touches - check for side to side play in Z axis - tighten screw if necessary (don't overdo it), two separate anti backlash nuts squeeze gently together before securing to gantry plate. Do same checks on Y axis (eccentrics, anti backlash nuts). Check lock collars on leadscrews are pressing bearings firmly into end plates (loosen screws holding end plates at end opposite motors 1 turn, adjust bearings/tighten lock collars, re-tighten end plates.
    That should eliminate most possible mechanical problems.
    Let us know if that doesn't work.
    Alex.
     
  6. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Ok I'll check everything over and see if anything helps. I've gone thru every that I can think of but still new to the lead screw setup.
     
  7. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    Seems to me there is a flat spot in the Y direction, which indicates backlash in the X axes.
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Lock the motors ($1=255, reset) and then grab the endmill, give it a wiggle and see which way its easy to push against. The force acts from the tip of the endmill, so starting there sometimes helps you find the source.
     
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  9. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Ok and how would I check for that?
     
  10. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master, Openbuilds Team
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    Hi @Joshua Enos - follow the tips I and @Peter Van Der Walt gave - if there is play anywhere on an axis it will show up at the tool tip, but you need to work back from there gradually eliminating possible causes. Without standing next to your machine it is difficult to give more precise advice.
    Good luck, Alex.
     
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  11. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Ok thanks I will do that and test out more possibilities.
     
  12. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Now for setting the backlash for the other plates how I would I do that?
     
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Adjust the eccentrics, tighten bolts, hard to give generic advice. Find whats loose, see why its not tight, and fix accordingly. Its very much a hands-on tactile thing. Wiggle it, check it, feel it, see it. You in front of the machine is the one who can see Ahh thats not right!


    (; almost like this: but duct tape won't help (;
    download (4).jpg
     
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  14. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master, Openbuilds Team
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    My first post listed all the things I could think of that you need to check - it basically boils down to make sure fixing screws are tight, eccentric adjustment, backlash nut adjustment, check leadscrew is held firmly between the end plates or gantry plates. If you find something is loose adjust it so its not (don't overtighten anything).
    Alex.
     
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  15. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Ok I'll go thru those steps. I just made everything snug and not torquing anything down. I'll let you know on updates
     
  16. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Yeah I know what you mean lol I had a xcarve and when the wheels would be loose I would see the difference in cuts.
     
  17. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Team
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    I like this except an experienced ME would (should) scoff at using WD-40 (except for use as cutting fluid in a pinch) ;)
     
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  18. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Agreed, ="Gary Caruso, post: 79611, member: 44739"]I like this except an experienced ME would (should) scoff at using WD-40 (except for use as cutting fluid in a pinch) ;)[/QUOTE]
    Agreed! Water Displacement isnt Oil!
     
  19. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Ok so I checked everything over again and think I found the problem. The coupler on the x axis was a little loose so I made sure that it was much better on being tight to the lead screw. It cleared up and both y and x it's the same for a measurement. The last picture was making sure everything was checked over and then seeing that it was loose on the x axis. I just wanna make sure that any circles are dead on because I do emblems that are like in the pictures.
     

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  20. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    Excellent. Now double check your steps again, then use the 3, 4, 5 method to check for square.

    Here's another tip. Write down your step values after you are happy with them. It will save you time if something ever happens to the controller.
     
  21. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Thanks and I will redo my steps again. Now the 3-4-5 how is that done? I always do when I do stuff with steps to make sure its what I had before.
     
  22. sharmstr

    sharmstr Master
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    Theres lots of ways to do it, but i like to put a piece of tape on the board and with a vbit in the router slowly move z down until the vbit just pierces the tape. Now move z up and jog the machine 400mm in y, then 300mm in x. Place another piece of tape down, pierce it then measure the distance between the holes in the tape. It should be 500mm. If not you're out of square.
     
    #22 sharmstr, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  23. ljvb

    ljvb Journeyman
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    Not sure how to do the 3 4 5 method on the CNC, but I used it for my table saw sled. Here is the video I used to build my sled, it describes the method somewhere in there.

     
  24. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    So still having problems again with the circles and I thought I solved the problem. I've made sure everything is not loose and honestly dont know what's causing this to happen. I'm using a .003 doc and feed rate around 45 ipm. I have to have those emblems in a perfect circle. I'm happy with how clean its cutting but its driving me crazy with everything has been looked over.
     

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  25. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master, Openbuilds Team
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    Hi @Joshua Enos, try cutting a square (not in wood) and measuring X and Y dimensions.
    Alex.
     
  26. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    In aluminum for the square?
     
  27. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master, Openbuilds Team
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    In aluminium would be the best, but acrylic would do. Make it fairly large (say 100 x 100mm) and measure it as accurately as you can.
    Alex.
     
  28. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    Ok I'll test it out. Just not understanding why it still has a flat spot on the x sides. I've checked over everything and idk what's causing it.
     
  29. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master, Openbuilds Team
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    I'm running out of ideas - the reason for asking you to cut a square is to see if the machine needs calibrating - ie steps/mm needs adjusting.
    Alex.
     
  30. Joshua Enos

    Joshua Enos Well-Known
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    I've done the steps and everything is dead on for that and I squared up the sides so it's not that. I did have the coupler loosened on the lead screw and tighten that up where it cleared up some of the error I was having before but wheels aren't super tight and I've followed every step on the videos and what was told to check from you guys and support also.
     

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