Welcome to Our Community

Some features disabled for guests. Register Today.

C-Bot

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Carl Feniak, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Do you use the hair spray on top of the Kapton? I wouldn't recommend that. For PLA use hairspray directly on the glass, gluestick, or unheated blue painters tape.
    What I do on my old printer is flip the glass over depending on the filament I am printing. Kapton tape for ABS on one side (I actually use PET tape), hair spray on the other. The issue with this is that as the hairspray builds up it can make the bed unlevel when you flip it over for ABS. Now I have two separate glass sheets for my C-Bot. You do need to let the hairspray bale a bit (5-10 minutes) the fist time you apply it.
    Bed temperature settings can depend a lot on where you place the thermister. My maker farm one is less than ideally placed on the underside of the PCB, while my MK2 bed is a little bit better as there is a hole in the bed center that allows it to touch the underside of the glass. Neither reflect the true temp of the bed surface as there will be a thermal gradient. With that in mind:

    PLA, I keep the bed and nozzle ~5C hotter for the first layer.
    Bed (on hairspray)
    60 on the MK2
    65 on the Maker Farm
    Nozzle
    205-215C, depends on my experience with the filament and how fast I am printing (a little extra heat if going fast, often added on the fly with LCD interace as I increase % speed)
    Max I've done is 218C for a first layer
    ABS,
    Bed (Kapton tape, PET tape)
    100 on the MK2
    110 on the Maker Farm (can't get past 114C)
    Nozzle
    235, 240 first layer
    PETG,
    Bed (on hairspray)
    85
    Nozzle
    240-245
     
    Raldan likes this.
  2. romoe

    romoe New
    Builder

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi,

    First I want to thank Carl for a great design and all the other people for great ideas in this comment section!

    So far I've just ordered all the parts (300x300x390) and am eager to start building in a few weeks!
    Took a while to find a good heated bed and by reading the comments it seems like I'm not the only one trying to find a 300x300 mm 24V bed.

    At the end I went for a silicone heated bed:
    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-P...e-Heater-300-x-300MM-24V-300W/1879743629.html

    But from the start I wanted to get a kapton heated bed due to its light weight. Did contact a seller about this and figured I might copy/paste his reply in case anyone wants to get one:

    "
    I have checked with our engineer of factory.
    We just have the Kapton Heater at 300mm x300 mm, we just have 12V 400W, the unit price is USD48.80 including China Post shipping that will take around 15-20 days to arrive.
    If your prefer 300mmX 300mm 24V 300W, we have to open a new mould for you and the tooling fee will be USD85.00. It will be not cost effective.
    Any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Thanks and best regards
    Julie
    JSR Industries
    "

    Link to kapton heatbed shop: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/613950
     
    #992 romoe, Oct 5, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  3. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Interesting, never came across the kapton heaters before. I guess you could slap four of these on!
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/120mm-X-150m...-thermistor-Kapton-Heater-3-PCs-/131606554073
    ... except they are sold in a 3 pack.
     
  4. AK Eric

    AK Eric Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    129
    I experienced the same thing: I wrapped my hot-block in some extra ceramic insulation (for my rep1's hotend), wrapped that in aluminum foil, then wrapped all that in kapton: I can run my dual 24cmf fans now (looks a lot like yours) at 90% and still maintain hotend temperature:
    http://www.akeric.com/blog/?p=3374
    Note running them both that high has actually knocked printed bits off the build platform... I tend to run them at 25-50% most of the time now...
     
    Raldan likes this.
  5. Raldan

    Raldan New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    20
    Good eye Eric, I got the fan type from one of your previous posts. ;)
     
  6. souprmage

    souprmage New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    Is there a link to the case you have for the graphical display? I'm only using the MakerFarm Pegasus at the moment, but I got the graphical display vs the standard one that it has as an option, so I need to print a case for it. And if there's a good one for the V-Rail already, I may as well use it.
     
  7. ruggb

    ruggb Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    16
    r u talking about this one?
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:219024

    is the one i used, i thought carl posted but i can't find it. it is probably attchd to a post. the mount isn't included in this one. but worse case i can send it to u.
     
  8. ruggb

    ruggb Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    16
    in fact, i found my pivoting frame - I think carl posted it long ago.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. ruggb

    ruggb Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    16
    my first one was not good past the 1/2 way mark - actually the bottom wasn't great either.
    that was with 0.4mm nozzle and poor cooling. now i improved the cooling and a few other things.
    I tried again with a 0.4mm nozzle and a 0.2 and a 0.3 = all failed for one reason or another
    nozzle jam, part unstuck, space between lines.
    If the hotend stays clear i might get it this time.

    what speeds, nozzle, temps, material, slicer r u using?
     
  10. Raldan

    Raldan New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    20
    This is the case: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:87250

    These are the braces I used to work with the V-Rails: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:223527
     
    NeoGames76 likes this.
  11. ruggb

    ruggb Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    16
    both of those cases r not the same. my display has 2 buttons on it and a light time adj that is crap but it is accessed via a hole in the front. I replaced the pot with a fixed resistor so now I don't need it.
    just pick the right one. The above mount may limit how low ur platform can go. It would mine since I compressed things. So i need to use the pivoting one.
     
  12. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    My Slic3r config bundle is attached. Change the file from .txt to .ini before import. Note that "OB1.4" is my old printer.
    My best prints ever were actually in ABS with a pico nozzle that I never use any more because it can't print PLA very well. If my J-head ever fails me then it will go on my old printer.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    I used this one as well and just designed a stand for it. Added the stand as a remix on thingiverse to both link the items and leave him the credit for the case.
     
  14. souprmage

    souprmage New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ok, well good to know the case and the mounts are separate. My display has the following in this order: Speaker, Button, Encoder, Button. Looks like the one in the main C-Bot photo above near as I can tell. But I'll figure out the right case to print and use one of these mounts with it. The Pegasus has a top cross member that I'll attach the mount to. Similar to where the stock one would mount.

    It also doesn't have a fan to cool the part (only one on the heat sink), and I'm trying to decide if I should add one or not. I'm not entirely sure I understand the purpose of the fan and whether it would help print the parts I want to print. I have designed a part that prints an M5 nut hole at a 80 degree angle, and when I set my extruder temp to 225 (for pla), the hole was very droopy. I then dropped the temp down to 205, and it prints nice and clean. I'm guessing that a higher temp would probably work if I had a cooling fan working in conjunction. Is this right? Is it better to have higher temp and a fan vs lower temp and no fan?

    So many things I'm trying to catch up on. And I want to understand all these trade-offs before I start ordering parts for a C-Bot 12x12x20.

    EDIT: ruggbs link http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:219024 which is for my case, so I'll go with this and I found the adjustable frame for V-slot remix from above http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:401244. I'm guessing that's the one Carl mentioned. Should be good to go. Thanks all.
     
    #1004 souprmage, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  15. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    You can still easily print a lot of PLA parts quite well without a fan however, a part cooling fan for PLA is quite helpful for a few reasons:
    -allows you to print sharper overhangs and smaller details
    -allows you to print smaller parts faster so they don't "melt", the fan(s) get the lower level below the glass transition temperature of PLA before the next layer goes on top
    -allows you to print a little hotter, which is necessary to print faster and still get good layer strength
    Instead of a moving fan on the hotend carriage, some people will put a large stationary fan at the edge of the bed. I used this as a temporary measure on my first printer.

    Not very helpful for ABS as ABS shrinks a lot when cooled and if it doesn't cool uniformly the part cracks or warps off the bed. Some people still activate it briefly while bridging ABS.
     
  16. trublu832

    trublu832 Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    65
    I have all of my parts together except for something to actually control the whole thing. I talked myself into getting a smoothieboard but $100 is the most I would want to spend on a control board and the $99 3x smoothies are sold out. My plan was to add an additional A4982 IC to get 4 drivers.

    Does anyone want to weigh in with an opinion on ramps, rumba,smoothie, or even smoothie clones and which seems to work best?
     
  17. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Sorry, I only have experience with RAMPS. Old tech but cheap and works.
     
    trublu832 likes this.
  18. ruggb

    ruggb Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    16
    using ur 0.12 settings I got this Benchy

    I'm still working on 3D Hacker - it keeps coming loose, I need to add a brim to it
     

    Attached Files:

    #1008 ruggb, Oct 12, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  19. AK Eric

    AK Eric Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    129
  20. souprmage

    souprmage New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    That's pretty sweet.
     
  21. trublu832

    trublu832 Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    65
    That print looks amazing Eric, now we can see why you went with such a tall printer height!

    I had an assembly question, I put together my corexy bar and print carriage and connected all belts but how tight should the belts be? Before the belts went on, the corexy bar and printhead would slide back and forth smoothly but with the belts on they are much harder to move by hand. Is there such a thing as too tight for the belts?

    [​IMG]
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  22. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    2,418
    Great print @AK Eric and very nice blog on your taller C-Bot build. Did you do any anything different (mods) with your Build to Carl's posted build that could be helpful, you maybe willing to share?
     
  23. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Too tight and the clips on the back side of the carriage could rip out. It does put more stress on all the components, but you are better off being too tight then too loose or your print quality will suffer.
    I tightened the belts by feeding both belts loosely through the rear clamps (fixed up front), grabbed them both with needle nose pliers, rotated the pliers to get a strong tension, and then clamped them down. Since both are loose then tension from the pliers equalizes in each section of belt and you can get them quite tight due to the large mechanical advantage of the pliers (small radius).
     
  24. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    That is awesome, looks amazing.
    No issues printing such low layer with such a big nozzle? <-- doesn't appear so
    You struck a good pose so that no support was needed to print. Fluke or did you have that in consideration? Did they clean up the scanned file for you?
     
  25. AK Eric

    AK Eric Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    129
    Thanks everyone :)

    @Mark Carew : Other than some mods made to the z-stepper brackets (done by @sheffdog , and I believe posted in this thread), its all the same hardware, other than longer extrusions.

    @Carl Feniak : No problems printing that res: I did some simple maths: If a .4mm nozzle will do .1 layer heights (high-res for it), then a .6mm nozzle should do .15 layer heights. No issues. I did that pose on purpose at time of scan, thinking I may print it in the future. They did do some cleanup, but the mesh they provided had weird anomonilies sticking off it in places I had to cleanup in meshmixer.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  26. Austin Seagers

    Austin Seagers Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    48
    Hi all.

    This thread/build discussion has really inspired me. (currently on page 24). I own a Wanhao Di3 at the moment, and while it's great for the money, it leaves a lot to be desired. Rather than spend more money shoe-horning the machine to be somewhat reliable, I thought my money would be better spent on an own-built printer.

    Carl, i really like the design ethic of keeping everything clean and obscured. It'll definitely fly better with the SO as the printer gets ordered in batches under her nose :troll:.

    My plan is to convert all your 123DX models to solidworks-compatible equivalents so I've got a build reference for the future and can plan my parts meticulously prior to purchase. Also helps with mods in the future which I'm a big advocate of.

    Not sure if you'd like the models uploading when I'm done with them at all? Certainly isn't very hacker-friendly, but I'd like to be able to give something back.

    Austin
     
  27. souprmage

    souprmage New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    That print is really lacking a DOG. You need to have a dog scanned and by your feet. That would make it about perfect.
     
  28. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Please do. I'll add the solidworks compatible files as a .zip set to the files section for others if you would supply them.
    Also, looking for some feedback:
    Currently all the .stl files are added as individual files and I've added peoples remixes as variants with their name in it. Should these be compiled into a single zipped folder so they can all be downloaded at once? I'd keep the BOM and instructions separate so that they can be viewed easily.
     
  29. Austin Seagers

    Austin Seagers Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    48
    I personally think all the STL's and design files should be in file type categorised zip files; yes. STEP file format is very universal throughout modelling packages and wouldn't go amiss. I've done quite a few of the conversions from the 123DX files myself. I'll up those with the solidworks files when i'm done in due course.

    A few of your models have some "hidden" faces that get picked up when converting to SLDPRT's. I remember someone mentioning in a much older post that the STL's need to be carved in your slicer to sit flat on the print bed. These faces, or extrusions might be the culprit!
     
  30. souprmage

    souprmage New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    5
    The other bit that would prove useful is a document describing the remix and it's reasoning. Meaning, it's not really clear what the remixes are fixing with the original design without reading the entire thread. And even now, I don't recall exactly and would have to go back through the thread to refresh my memory. Something like, "use this remix if...".
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice