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C-Beam Desktop On Rails

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Gary Monroe, May 19, 2017.

  1. Gary Monroe

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    Here I am installing the end caps on the Y Axis. I'm very happy with the precision of everything I've received from the OpenBuilds Parts Store. Very nicely done, OpenBuilds Parts Stores!.

    InstallingEndCaps.jpg
     
  2. Gary Monroe

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    Here is the Z Axis Assembly started. Everything fits so well without any slop. The precision of all the parts is spot on. I'm used to seeing things fit without slop and precise fit with my model helicopter hobby. This looks to be no different. I'm very pleased with my parts purchase from the OpenBuilds Parts Store. Well Done!

    AssemblyingZAxis.jpg
     
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  3. WarEagle90

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    Coming along nicely, Gary. I like the idea of putting the control panel/box in a drawer under the router. I had planned to use a heavy duty A/V box I had laying around and mounting it to the side of the table, but I may reconsider putting it in a drawer. Have to think about air flow and cable management but it might work. Question: what advantage does the open rail provide?

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  4. Gary Monroe

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    Hi WarEagle90. Thanks for noticing my build. Yea, I figured that mounting the bottom of the control box to a heavy-duty drawer slide would keep it out of the way, but still provide ample air-flow to it. I'm not planning on putting the box into a drawer, but just somehow attaching the bottom of the control box to the rails, keeping the sides free for access to the inside of it.

    You're wondering about the advantages of the open-rail, I thought it would provide for a stronger and firmer bearing arrangement and last longer. I'm not so sure about that after seeing the open rail. I haven't bought the wheels, yet. I wanted to buy the steel V-wheels to run along on the rails. I still plan on doing this, but only time will tell about the durability of the aluminum rail. It's too bad that there isn't a steel equivalent of the aluminum open rail. If anyone from OpenBuilds Parts Store watches these builds, I'm wondering if they will take suggestions and provide a steel equivalent to the open rail to match the steel V-Wheels.
     
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  5. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Unfortunately steel can't be extruded like aluminum. To do this in steel would require something custom ground which would quickly get cost prohibitive.
     
  6. Gary Monroe

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    The open-rail is rather inexpensive, and would not cost much to replace as it wears down. This will be a good experiment to see how many hours the aluminum open-rail will hold up against the steel wheel bearings. Thanks for the feed-back, Rick 2.0
     
  7. Gary Monroe

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    Grantman, Sweet! Thanks for that info! I'll have to see how much it will change the specs on my builds. This v groove looks to be a bit thicker than what comes from OpenBuilds Parts Store. Have you tried this option on any of your builds?
     
  8. Gary Monroe

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    I haven't bought my wheels, yet, so, I'll definitely take a look at this product. Thanks for the info.
     
  9. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    It's out there Gary. Hardened and ground. I used it on my build.
    [​IMG]

    Joe
     
  10. Gary Monroe

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    Excellent! I'll do more research. I see there are lots to choose from on eBay. Which supplier did you go with, and how compatible is it with C-Beam? Is your build on OpenBuilds? I would like to see how you installed your v rail. Thanks for sharing Joe!
     
  11. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I used IMService machine shop for the rails and spacers. They have a website and eBay account. I recommend you contact them for a quote through email directly if you decide on going this route. They have a dedicated setup for fabricating the spacers and eccentrics. The bearing are VXB.

    The rails are not extruded, but Rick was right about one thing that it's a pricey system. Not horrible for what you're getting into though.

    I have a couple of dated pictures of the machine I designed and built in my media section(OB members only. Will probably take them down soon now though), but I haven't done a full build section here on the site. Considering I haven't seen my setup used anywhere in the router domain I'm kinda hesitant about China and others equipped for rapid knockoffs. Plus, It's a daunting task doing a build section at this point with such a large to do list for other things. I did take hundreds of photos throughout the process and would be glad to assist anyone through PM.

    iirc, the rail and vslot combination is no good. I have it in memory that the #2 steel rail will work with a couple of other profile extrusions out there(none by slot). I don't retain that type of detailed information well enough to recall which and would have to dig through my files. I have them all modeled. Off the top of my head I think it might have been 8020 and misumi that had a profile or two that would possibly suffice and not minitec or the Openbuilds extrusion. All mainly because of the extrusion radii, but some for the amount of bite the mounting screws had. Disclaimer, in no way am I knocking profiled systems. They're tried and true as demonstrated, I ended up staying away from all of the profile extrusions because they were not up to the task based on requirements I set forward (plus the FEA and hand calculating). Even with braced steel rails at all four corners of the gantry I was seeing more deflection through the system than I could handle based on the requirements I set(Important to note here that I work in mechanical design for rapid R&D, think in industrial design which conflicts with the latter almost always, and have a prior tool and die background with CNC programing experience). The inertial mass was great for accel/decel requirements, but I found that box extrusion was too hard to beat for both tasks.

    You can see how I installed my rail by checking out my media. However, the process in which it was installed is not described there. The rails have some slight bow and/or twist to them and butting them up tight was no menial task. You really have to get this right the first time or the top an bottom rails will ride funky permantly. I do retain process details quite well and remember every step of that stinking job. Actually I came up with a new machine concept while installing those dang rails and am currently working out those details(instead of running the router of course!!).

    In the end Gary(yes there's finally an end to this rant), I wouldn't recommend the steel vrail system for long lengths to anyone here at this point unless you have the dough to cough up for perfect bishop wisecarver components or are willing to deal with a task to install a component that is normally straight forward in regards to its available counterparts. On top of that you should have a good mechanical inclination to begin with(I believe you do). If you are looking to build an industrial grade machine then this system is spot on(even on par with profile rail plus some additional advantages if installed right), but not right for profile extruded aluminum. My requirements meant that I was building a Ferrari from the get go for myself. While the performance is as designed, its not really a practical nor economical system to implement for the hobbyist. I just had resources and the know how to pull it off, but you have to ask yourself if that's what matters for what you intend to accomplish. If one can't afford top notch name brand components, or if they want to get to machining already, and/or just have a few jobs in mind then just get delrin vwheels to put on the openrail and get her done. I'm sure you'll be happy and most importantly you'll be able to move on to the next build. :rolleyes: Otherwise, I think that putting steel wheels on that aluminum openrail is going to lead to discouragement and distraction from what might matter more to you than I...making those chips fly.

    Joe
     
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  12. Gary Monroe

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    Joe, thank you for sharing your expertise and knowledge. After doing more research, I noticed the steel v rail was considerably more expensive. It's not terrible, and spending more for the linear motion system here is not out of the question. I just have to decide if what I've designed with the delrin wheels will be good enough for what I'm going to do with it. I'm certainly not going to be doing any production work on a daily basis. When I started looking at these desktop CNC machines, I was looking at the Chinese ball-screw linear systems that are very robust compared to what I'm building here. They were just a bit pricy just for the linear motion components. I'm now wondering if I shouldn't have gone that route anyway.

    I will certainly take your advice to heart and make a decision soon. I am waiting for my plates to be machined by someone here on the site, so I don't have them, yet. Therefore, I have some time to decide. Based on your advice, I'm now leaning toward the delrin v-wheels with the aluminum open rail for now. Once I get started with it and get the chips flying, I can maybe look at an upgrade.

    I'm also trying to decide on the spindle I want to use for this. I want something that will cut light aluminum, plastics, carbon-fiber sheets, wood. I don't plan to cut any steel. I was looking at a 1500Watt spindle. Does that sound too large for my setup? What do you think based on what you know about my build? I value your expertise.

    Thanks again Joe.
     
  13. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    And once you get cutting you can make your own redesigned components.

    I don't like to give spindle advice, but personally I think the 1.5kw spindles are a bit much to be mounting on some machines. My setup doesn't have any of the gantry torsion or deflection problems associated with profile extrusion(though I might redesign my Z). I don't know what positive effects reinforcing the gantry actually gives so I'll leave that to others more experienced with that setup. As you probably know, there are a lot of variables to consider surrounding the spindle.
    Weight, desired collet size, water or not, remote operation, VFD selection, etc. Regardless, make sure you have the right voltage and current capacity for everything at the job site prior to purchasing.

    I think there are some builds here that use the 1.5kw. with some success(subjective). I can't recall any specifically. There are a couple that tried a 3kw spindle(don't do it). I use a .8kw 1hp spindle with a Allen Bradly drive and it cuts the above no problem. Regardless of spindle, I recommend you avoid the HY drives that come in most eBay spindle packages. Fork up the dough for a good VFD. If you're hard up for cash look into the Teco FM50 and FM100.
     
  14. Gary Monroe

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    Hi Joe, I trust your experience. Thanks for the input. I'm not hard up for cash, but I want to be reasonable as this is to support my hobby, and so I don't want to go with a Porsche, when a Chevy will do. But I'll accept your advice and look into the Teco VFDs. This is the main reason I decided to share my build on this site. I hope to learn from others experience and avoid problems others have already experienced. Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated.
     
  15. Gary Monroe

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    Hi Joe, I've been researching the Allen Bradley and Teco VFDs. I have 110 to my shop. However, 220 is not out of the question. I have found several used Allen Bradley drives available. Teco has an L510 that supports 120v input for up to a 1hp spindle. What is your opinion of these options?
     
  16. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I'd just like to mention for the sake of review and for noob readers that 1hp is about 746watts. 1000 watts is a kilowatt. A 1.5 kilowatt spindle can be considered a 2hp spindle and so on. Also worth mentioning that motor drives can be limited internally through the settings. So essentially a 2hp drive can operate a motor rated less than 2hp without blue smoke. Running a 2hp motor on a 1hp drive is counter intuitive. I know this all seems really fundamental to some, but it is lost on many beginner's.
    All that said, Gary, I think that if you can find a deal on a nice 2hp drive 230 or not then you have the option to run a .8 or a 1.5kw spindle. The 230 circuit is something you'll have to determine is worth installing. It'll draw less current, but I don't know if the cost will be justified. VFDs at 120 and over 1hp are limited. They're out there, but decent ones can get pricey. 120 draws more current, so you'll have keep an eye on breaker capacity as mentioned. It's up to you to contrast these things with your individual situation. The FM100 or the EV Series would get to a 2hp drive, but you'll need that 230V. The 1hp drive would mean you'll want a .8kw spindle. Your call.
     
  17. Gary Monroe

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    Excellent info Joe, because I was wondering if a 2hp drive could safely run a 1hp spindle. I know enough to realize the inverse would not work. The more I learn about this, the more I believe the 230 would be a good investment to the shop. You sharing your knowledge and experience is what these forums are all about. We noobies learn from you veterans willing to share your knowledge. Thank you for sharing.
     
    #47 Gary Monroe, Jul 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  18. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Yeah. Depending on the work you do or plan to do 230 really works well. There's a lot of 220 shop equipment out there. You can by 3 phase equipment and run it on VFD/SVD's. You could run a decent welder if you're into that sort of thing too.
     
  19. Gary Monroe

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    I Installed a heavy-duty drawer slide with a tray to hold my controller box. Once I have the machine built, I can figure out how long my wire leads will need to be for the motors and limit switc WorkbenchWithController.jpg
     
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  20. Gary Monroe

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    Here's another picture of the drawer slide with the mounting tray.

    DrawerSlideTray.jpg
     
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  21. Gary Monroe

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    Here's the controller installed on the tray showing that I have full access to the controller box with it pulled all the way out. I just held the controller to the tray with a couple of screws.

    ContrlInstalledOnTray.jpg
     
  22. Gary Monroe

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    I just finished configuring the SingleBoardComputer I bought from eBay. This is an Aaeon SBC I found. It has a corei3 processor installed, 4GB RAM, and a 32GB SSD. This thing screams with Win7 Pro 32bit installed on it. I installed Mach4 still in Demo mode, and I'll be connecting it to the Ethernet SmoothStepper board in my controller box very soon and getting them talking.
    SBC_For_Controller1.jpg
     
  23. Gary Monroe

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    Here's a closer look at this mighty midget. It has 2 USB3.0 ports, VGA and DVI ports, 2 GBE LAN connections, 2x SATA 6Mb connections
    that will have a 2.5" 600GB 10K-RPM HDD attached soon. It's in the mail.

    Aaeon_SBC_UpClose.jpg
     
  24. Gary Monroe

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    I mounted this SBC on a scrap piece of heavy plastic. I temporarily mounted the 12V powersupply to the
    bottom of this scrap plastic using electrical tape to make it a little brick. I'll be putting this into my control panel
    once I get the PoKey controller and push buttons I found at this URL: MPGs & CNC Panels - Motion Control

    PowerSupplyforSBC.jpg

    More to come!
     
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  25. DA98520

    DA98520 New
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    I am looking for a good .8kw spindle and VFD, what spindle are you using? Not sure if going the Chinese ebay route on a spindle is a good idea but haven't found a good source in my price range yet. I'll have 120v access and no plans for metals other than aluminum.
     
  26. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Automationtechnologiesinc I think they warranty for a year on the spindles. Mine has been solid. My vfd came from an electronics seller on eBay.
     
  27. Gary Monroe

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    Joe, that's nice to hear someone else mention Automationtechnologiesinc. I think they are a great supplier to work with. I ordered my stepper motors Ethernet SmoothStepper, and drivers from them. They came in 2 days after I ordered them. I also had to send back some parts that I ordered that were the wrong size, and that was no big deal. I highly recommend them also.
     
  28. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Yeah. They're a little pricey on shipping, but you do get orders pretty quick. I like their motors. They're formerly known as Keling.
    www.kelinginc.net/ They had decent motor drivers from what I've heard.
     
  29. Gary Monroe

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    I ordered the 570oz 4-axis kit with the 48V Power Supply and the EthernetSmoothStepper Motion controller. It looks pretty solid, but I haven't powered up the PS, yet. However, I have powered up the ESS and am able to ping it from my PC. I hope to wire up the PS and power that up this week sometime, once I buy the Mach4 license so that I can configure the ESS with Mach4. All that should happen this week sometime.
     
  30. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I don't know about mach4, but with 3 Artsoft let you download, install, and set it up. The trial is limited to 500 lines of code and I think some features are disabled, it still allows you to have an operational cnc. I ran it for a couple of months that way before buying a license to do complex work. I don't know if it's the same case with 4. Might be worth looking into. You could get started on the configuration now if it is.
     

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