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C-Beam™ Machine - Plate Maker

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Mark Carew, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. techfreakz

    techfreakz Well-Known
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    Hello Charles,

    I'm sorry, I thought this was the C-Beam thread? Would you please point me as to which thread I should post to?

    Thanks,
    Alex
     
  2. bnbellis3377

    bnbellis3377 Well-Known
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    Thanks for the reply I have the nema 23s and the arduino and gshield was looking at a 24v 15 amp power supply do a lot of scroll saw cutting on 1/8 and 3/16 aluminum, getting harder with fingers that don't work like they use to. Thanks again
     
  3. Jimmybuckets

    Jimmybuckets Veteran
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    You will need an Arduino running GRBL $25. A Gshield $50. 6 amp or more power supply $30. A router...I am using the Dewalt DWP611 $120. Software can all be had for free to get up and running. I am using GRBL panel to feed the Arduino/Gshield. I have been using Estlcam to turn drawings into code for the machine to run.
     
  4. Ronald van Arkel

    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

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    Hello Alex,

    With that many questions you might consider as Charles says, just make a new topic in the main section of "routers". When you start building and post your project, you can use that topic as reference for others. For now, more people might have the same questions as you have and there will be few that will read through 37+ pages to see the answers on the questions you posted; if it's in the main section of "routers" people most likely can find it ;).

    -Ronald
     
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  5. Jimmybuckets

    Jimmybuckets Veteran
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    I know it has been mentioned before, but I am to the point I am finally cutting, but am noticing a fair amount of deflection in the Z when pushed or pulled on. I was thinking of trying to tighten the eccentrics a bit more but don't want to put extra wear on them if it won't really help. If it is just the way it is, then I can deal with it and just go nice and slow. I realize this is a $500 kits so I'm not expecting mil spec, but if there is something simple I can do to take out some of the slop...I'll take what I can get.
    UPDATE: Unless others have noticed otherwise...It. seems that while a great value for the money...there are some areas that I may work on to build some extra rigidity into the machine. I noticed a fair amount old flex in just about every part of the machine. Looks like my first aluminum parts may be for these cbeam machine itself =) Can't wait!!! Hahaha
     
    #1085 Jimmybuckets, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  6. Bob R

    Bob R Journeyman
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    Yes, there's a fair bit of deflection. My testing shows the weakest link is the extreme wheels.

    Tightening the eccentrics a bit more doesn't reduce the deflection because small amounts of deflection are roughly proportional to the applied force, i.e. it doesn't stop deflecting after a certain amount of force. In fact my testing shows too much tightening of the eccentrics will result in increased backlash. If you try to rotate the wheels by hand to check tightness, you don't want the wheels to spin freely because that means there's no contact. However you should be able to make the wheels drag against the v-slot as you spin them by hand. If you can't then it's too tight. You want them to just barely rub against the v-slot.

    You can reduce deflection by creating new plates for the wheels that push them further apart. The parts store now has the double wide gantry plate, but that only spreads the wheel further apart along one axis. For example the wheels on that gantry are on the inside of the c-beam channel, just as they are on the original gantry. So although the wheel are spread apart in one direction, they aren't in the other direction. Putting the wheels on the outside of the c-beam would help. Deflection caused by torsion (i.e. rotation) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the wheels. If you want to cut this type of deflection to 1/4, then you have to double the distance between the wheels.

    (Edited to correct relationship of deflection caused by wheel distance.)
     
    #1086 Bob R, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  7. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    I don't see this deflection in any of @Mark Carew 's videos of the C-Beam cutting, or am I just missing it?
    His prototype cuts smoothly without chatter.
     
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  8. Bob R

    Bob R Journeyman
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    You can't see a few or tens of thousands of deflection. It must be measured. But that doesn't mean it's not significant.
     
  9. snokid

    snokid Master
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  10. Jimmybuckets

    Jimmybuckets Veteran
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    Thanks for the replies guys. I am sure quality cuts can be made as long as the machine is not pushed very hard. I just wanted to make sure I was seeing what was normal for this machine.
     
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  11. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    I don't know what question you are answering here, but you are making something sound very complicated <-:

    Sketchup + SketchUcam plugin is a total, free solution to generating Gcode, so that is pretty simple.
    Sketchup is the simplest CAD I have ever used. Hated AutoCAD, was friendly with TurboCAD, but love Sketchup.
    Inkscape can also do it, also free and open source.

    You can buy Arduino's with GRBL preloaded, and loading it via the Arduino IDE is pretty simple, just follow the instructions.
    All free too, and really pretty simple.

    To feed the Gcode to GRBL you can go simple, UGS the Universal Gcode Sender (cross platform Java), or a bit more complicated with GRBL-Panel (Windows only), or quite complex but versatile with bCNC (crossplatform Python). And of course there are many others. I prefer something with a graphical preview (not UGS), helps me make sure I have loaded the correct file (-:

    so, what was the question?
     
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  12. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    You can definitely hear that as chatter, and see it in surface finish.
     
  13. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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  14. Jimmybuckets

    Jimmybuckets Veteran
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    I hope I didn't get us side tracked with the shortcomings of the C-Beam Machine. When I bought the machine I had mixed expectations. I think while some things could be better...overall the kit went together pretty easily. For the money it can do a lot of things that will let me improve the C-Beam machine itself as well as create new things and improve other older projects. The machine is a great jumping off point that will remain useful even after some have moved on to larger and or more powerful platforms. Check out Kyo's video on his idea for updates to the machine that reuses almost all of the parts from the C-Beam machine.
     
  15. Jimmybuckets

    Jimmybuckets Veteran
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  16. Bob R

    Bob R Journeyman
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    Dave,

    See my post #790 Jan 19, 2016 in this thread. I've isolated it and most of the deflection shown in that post is from the wheels.

    As Jim stated, we don't need to get side tracked with the shortcomings of the C-Beam. At the same time it's ok to acknowledge limitations. This ultimately leads to improvements - some of which I'm in the process of working on. :)
     
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  17. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Sorry Bob not seeing any of these deflection issues you mention on your wheels. I am guessing that the bearing themselves could have some area for movement but I have not noticed this happening.
    Yes Jim on the X and Y would perfect for this plate as you can see on some of the Part Store Pics it can be used in many other configurations as well.
     
  18. Bob R

    Bob R Journeyman
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    Mark, how are you measuring the deflection on your C-Beam?
     
  19. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Hi Bob,
    The deflection values of C-Beam can be calculated using this guide - How to calculate V-Slot™ deflection
    Calculating any movement in the wheels/bearings would be a little more difficult to measure on their own and we have not tried this yet but may be a good idea to visit higher abec ratings.
    P.S. Thanks for the good idea of the quadruple L bracket. This would be a nice addition to the 20x80 V-Slots
     
  20. Darrell Corpening

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  21. Darrell Corpening

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    Help me, where would I find "Kyo's video on his ideas for updates...."
     
  22. Kyo

    Kyo Master
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    It is on my youtube "Here" I am extremely happy with my c-beam it has been cutting 1/4" aluminium and wood almost non stop since I have built it. Check out my gallery! The two problems I am tackling with this remodel are bed deflection on the outside edges when cutting larger thicker aluminum plates then the machine was meant for and increasing the cutting area as much as possible. Both have been approached in different ways already and all seem to work really well. Such as Teflon4's build and Fred Quarles..

    I am taking a more Ox / R7 inspired approach and going with a fixed bed. I am also going to use the C-beam machine it self to make the needed parts and provide the needed components so the remodel will require few to no additional purchases.

    Remodeled C-beam Machine.jpg

    Not shown in the above images / youtube video. The Z-axis will be getting upgraded as well with the cool new parts OB is putting out. :thumbsup: Just waiting for the files for all the new plates to come out so I can model it up first.
     
    #1102 Kyo, May 20, 2016
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  23. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    This is going to be a really nice strong Build @Kyo looking forward to seeing it all come together. :thumbsup:
    Example Build files have been removed (we want to make sure everything is right) to allow us time to release this new amazing router as a Bundle Build soon! :thumbsup:
    OpenBuilds C-Beam XLarge Gantry Plate.jpg
     
    #1103 Mark Carew, May 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2016
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  24. Chris Laidlaw

    Chris Laidlaw Journeyman
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    I assume someone has mentioned it, but is there a fix for fact that the center of the large wheels is .71mm farther out than the center of the mini wheels, and to make both in the center of the C-Beam groves on the Z axis, the spacer for the large wheels should be 5.3mm if 6mm spacers are used for the mini wheels? Either that, or make a .71mm CB in the gantry plate where the large wheels attach.
     
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  25. Ronald van Arkel

    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

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    @Chris Laidlaw, Are you talking about the difference on the width of the mini and full size V wheels? If so then full size wheel is 11mm and mini wheel 9mm; there was an error saying that the bearings were 4.2mm wide while they were 4.0mm.

    -Ronald
     
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  26. Kyo

    Kyo Master
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    I went out just to make sure, Ronald is correct. My fully assembled full size wheels measure 11mm and the mini 9mm. The mini should only need one more 1mm precision shim then the full size to come into alignment from plate face to center of V-wheel.
     

    Attached Files:

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  27. Chris Laidlaw

    Chris Laidlaw Journeyman
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    Accord
    According to the dimensio s of the wheels, they differ by 1.43mm, which means either making the large wheel spacer shorter by .715mm or adding a .715mm spacer to the mini wheels so that both edges of both type of wheels contact both edges of thier respective grooves in the Z axis C Beam.
    Adding a 1mm shim to the mini wheels would be a good enough solution.
     
  28. Kyo

    Kyo Master
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    Okay, now I see what you mean the wheels them self.. Sure enough I removed the bearings so I was only measuring the wheels and yep 1.41-1.43 (ish depending on wheel ) difference.

    EDIT:

    I am only using full and mini together on my y-axis as of current design. Z and X stick to one wheel size. I could just remove the two full size that ride on top of the c-beam ( not sure they add much to the rigidity).

    Basically a double gantry plate wheel layout.
    Y axis wheel layout.png

    I should probably start a new thread so I don't clutter the c-beam machine with my c-beam remodel ideas to much. lol
     
    #1108 Kyo, May 22, 2016
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
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  29. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Chris,

    I don't believe you are quite following. While the thickness of the wheels is different, what matters is that the center lines of the differing wheel assemblies be in alignment. When the centerlines match, the V-slot is square to the plate.

    Attached is a graphic of what Kyo is referring to...

    Wheels 800.jpg

    The 1mm shim makes it all fit right.
     
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  30. Bob R

    Bob R Journeyman
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    As Rick says, you need to go by the bearings, not the wheels. The "sidewalls" of the wheels don't touch anything.
     
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