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C-Beam™ Machine - Plate Maker

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Mark Carew, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. Jimmybuckets

    Jimmybuckets Well-Known
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    Google Super-PID
     
  2. Brandon Graham

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    @David the swarfer Thanks for the reply. Is it really that experimental? You would think the MFG would have a spec for that. If I could find out who makes the motor, I'm sure they'd have a spec or a chart or something.
     
  3. gcardinal

    gcardinal New
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    Thanks for all feedbacks! My main concern now is weight - 1.5kw is about 4 kg and 1050 is only 1.7 kg

    Can C-Beam handle 4 kg spindle? And is there a real benefit in going the VFD spindle way?

    When it comes to run-out at the base its quite good:


    But of course, with longer tools it will be a different story, indeed.

    And when it comes to the noise I dont find it to be such a big deal since I wear hear protection anyhow.

    Agreed, with Kress it is anything up to 8mm without any issues. ER20 is often a big too big and ER11 is too small - and ER16 is often hard to find. Parts for the Kress on the other hand is a bit pricy...

    Yes I tested in 3D and it looks too be a bit too high... :/
     
  4. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    For me, hearing protection wasn't an option. I have two kids and they sleep not too far from the garage where my machine will be located, so keeping the noise to a minimum was a big priority. I had thought of using a router just due to the fact that I can get collets that will fit much larger tools than the ER11 collet on the 800W spindle. Ultimately though, sound levels won over tool flexibility.

    On that note, my spindle will be here today (Thanks Automation Technologies!), and the VFD will be here tomorrow. Shame my C-Beam Machine won't ship until next week :(
     
  5. Clark222

    Clark222 New
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    I figure that I'm doing something wrong. It worked pretty good on a one inch thick piece of acetyl considering i just made up speeds and only had a rotozip bit that was long enough to cut through the material. On the aluminum it was strange that it cut one side pretty smooth and one side sort of stair step. I ended up breaking two bits so i thought it might be a good time to ask for help.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Brandon Graham

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    I doubled the acceleration and upped the speed to 5000 and don't see a difference. I am using every part recommended in the C-Beam Machine build video. From your store, I got the 12v power supply. Do I need a 24v to get some more speed into this thing? Or do some of these other settings help?
    step/mm?
     
  7. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    yes, you need more voltage to maximize speed.
    do use a little less than the max voltage the drivers are rated for.

    I note that you said you are trying to use it as a pen plotter.
    in general, leadscrews are good for power and accuracy, not speed.
    belts are good for raw speed, and less so for power and accuracy.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  8. Charles Roseberry

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    Im new here and very new to CNC. I wanted to order the C-Beam Bundle, but I wanted 1000mm xy axis. I changed out the parts for 1000mm beam and 8mm Metric Acme Lead Screw and the C-Beam™ Linear Actuator Bundle. Is this all I should need to change in the parts list to enlarge my machines size to the 1000mm? I cant complete the order until this is resolved.
     
  9. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    All the frame parts would need to be changed out for 1000mm parts too. There will be a lot more work to do though, as with the increase in size, you are decreasing the rigidity of the machine. The X-axis will need to be beefed up with additional material to prevent sagging and deflection. The Y-axis will need to have additional supports for the bed for stability.
     
  10. Charles Roseberry

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    Thank you for your reply Evilc66. These are the listed frame parts:



    Tee Nuts - M5 (Singles) 44 Frame
    115 Low Profile Screws Singles - 8mm 24 Frame
    120 Low Profile Screws Singles - 10mm 26 Frame
    230 Drop In Tee Nuts 2 Frame
    490 Cast Corners 18 Frame
    545 Single L Brackets 2 Frame
    610 90 Degree Joining Plate 2 Frame
    720 Self Tapping Screws 6 Frame
    1030 M4 x 6mm Screws 2 Frame
    10 - LP C-Beam Linear Rail - 500mm 2 Frame
    20 - LP 8mm Metric Acme Lead Screw - 500mm 2 Frame
    160 - LP 500mm 20x60 V-Slot (2 Pre-Cut in Half)

    The last three should be the only parts I would have to worry about no?

    I have updated the cart to this:


    C-Beam™ Linear Actuator Bundle Length: 1000mm
    V-Slot™ Linear Rail Size: 20mm x 60mm Length: 1000mm-was 500mm 20x60 v-slot (2 Pre-Cut in Half)
    C-Beam™ Linear Rail Length: 1000mm
    8mm Metric Acme Lead Screw Length: 1000mm


    Aside from adding additional support when it is completed, is this all I should change in your opinion?
     
  11. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Lets deal with each axis one at a time, then the frame

    X-Axis - The C-Beam Machine deviates away from the C-Beam bundle slightly, which is why they list it as separate parts in the BOM. It looks like you may be ordering the 1000mm bundle in addition to the C-Beam rail and the acme screw, which would mean you would be duplicating a lot of parts. You would just need to order the 1000mm profile and the 1000mm acme screw. All the other parts for the X-axis will work fine.

    Y-Axis - Same deal as the X-axis. You only need to change the C-Beam profile and the screw

    Z-Axis - Nothing to change here

    Frame - The original kit has 6 500mm profiles. 4 of them are used for the frame and the remaining 2 are cut in half for the gantry risers. To expand your machine to 1000mm, you only need to replace 4 of the 500mm profiles with the 1000mm versions. You will still need to order 2 of the 500mm profiles for the gantry risers, unless you want to make it taller (will require more bracing depending on how tall you want to go).

    Just to make sure it's clear, here is the edited section of the BOM for the frame where you would see the changes (changes marked in red, part numbers have been updated too):

    50 Tee Nuts - M5 (Singles) 44 Frame
    115 Low Profile Screws Singles - 8mm 24 Frame
    120 Low Profile Screws Singles - 10mm 26 Frame
    230 Drop In Tee Nuts 2 Frame
    490 Cast Corners 18 Frame
    545 Single L Brackets 2 Frame
    610 90 Degree Joining Plate 2 Frame
    720 Self Tapping Screws 6 Frame
    1030 M4 x 6mm Screws 2 Frame
    75 - LP C-Beam Linear Rail - 1000mm 2 Frame <-- Length change
    15 - LP 8mm Metric Acme Lead Screw - 1000mm 2 Frame <-- Length change
    160 - LP 500mm 20x60 V-Slot (Cut in Half) 2 Frame <-- Quantity change from 6 to 2
    200 - LP 1000mm 20x60 V-Slot 4 Frame <-- New line item with longer rails

    Just add the above to your cart along with the X, Y, and Z-axis parts that are listed in the C-Beam Macing BOM and you should be good to go.
     
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  12. Charles Roseberry

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    Thank you so very much! I will make those changes now and see where I am.

    This is the updated BOM.

    Tee Nuts (25 Pack) Quantity: 2
    Aluminum Spacers Size: 6mm Quantity: 13
    Aluminum Spacers Size: 40mm Quantity: 4
    Low Profile Screws M5 length: 10mm Quantity: 50
    1/4" x 8mm Flexible Coupling Quantity: 4
    Aluminum Spacers Size: 3mm Quantity: 4
    Slot Washer - 15x5x2mm Quantity: 8
    Eccentric Spacer Length: 6mm - Wheels Quantity: 5
    Xtreme Solid V Wheel™ Kit Quantity: 10
    Cast Corner Bracket Quantity: 26
    V-Slot™ Gantry Plates Universal (20mm - 80mm) Quantity: 1
    Low Profile Screws M5 Length: 20mm Quantity: Quantity: 25
    Ball Bearing 688Z 8x16x5 Quantity: 4
    Low Profile Screws M5 Length:25mm Quantity: 10
    Low Profile Screws M5 Length:55mm Quantity: 4
    8mm Shim Quantity: Quantity: 4
    Lock Collar I.D.: 8mm Quantity: 4
    C-Beam™ End Mount Quantity: 4
    Anti-Backlash Nut Block for 8mm Lead Screw Quantity 2
    Build Plate Quantity: 1
    Self Tapping Screw Quantity: 15
    Black Angle Corner Connector Quantity: 4
    Router/Spindle Mount Quantity: 1
    Low Profile Screws M5 Length: 8mm Quantity: 25
    Drop In Tee Nuts Quantity: 2
    L Bracket Size: Single Quantity: 2
    90 Degree Joining Plate Quantity: 2
    Socket Head Cap Screw M4 Quantity: 2
    C-Beam™ Linear Rail Length: 1000mm Quantity: 2
    8mm Metric Acme Lead Screw Length: 1000mm Quantity: 2
    V-Slot™ Linear Rail 20mm x 60mm Length:1000mm Quantity: 4
    C-Beam™ Linear Actuator Bundle : 1000mm Quantity: 1
    NEMA 23 Stepper Motor Quantity: 3
    12V/30A Power Supply Quantity: 1
    CNC xPRO V2 Controller Stepper Driver Quantity: 1


    How did I do?
     
    #1002 Charles Roseberry, Mar 31, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  13. Charles Roseberry

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    added:
    V-Slot™ Linear Rail 20mm x 60mm Length:1000mm Quantity: 4

    You also mentioned additional bracing due to the size. That is something I will have to also look at while Im ordering.
     
  14. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    What's with the 1000mm C-Beam Actuator Bundle? The only place that the bundle is used is on the Z-axis, and that should only be 250mm. You won't need or won't even be able to use a 1000mm Z-axis.

    I also don't see the two 500m 20x60 profiles (the ones you cut in half for the gantry riser).

    All you had to change on the BOM that's listed on the C-Beam Machine page was the 4 lines that I highlighted in red. Can you tell that I've been studying this machine for a while? :)
     
  15. Charles Roseberry

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    I have no idea what the cbeam acuator bundle is, it is listed in the list of parts in the Bom. I could suggest changing how it is listed to make it easier on the next person actually lol. But if I dont need it, great, it is now removed :)

    V-Slot™ Linear Rail 20mm x 60mm Length:500mm Quantity: 2 - is that not them?

    I misunderstood, you said I was duplicating it so I went through the entire list again to see what you were referring to.
     
  16. Charles Roseberry

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  17. Charles Roseberry

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    C-Beam™ Linear Rail Length: 1000mm Quantity: 2
    8mm Metric Acme Lead Screw Length: 1000mm Quantity: 2
    V-Slot™ Linear Rail 20mm x 60mm Length:500mm Quantity: 2
    V-Slot™ Linear Rail 20mm x 60mm Length:1000mm Quantity: 4
     
  18. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    You still need the C-Beam Actuator Bundle for the Z-axis, but 250mm (stock), not 1000mm.

    Yes.

    Correct. These line items should be the only ones that you needed to change from the original BOM (just remember to put that 250mm C-Beam Actuator Bundle back in)
     
  19. Charles Roseberry

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    IM so sorry so, youre saying to add the c beam actuator back in but the 250mm version to clarify?
     
  20. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Yes. That is your Z-axis. Won't get much work done without it :)
     
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  21. Charles Roseberry

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    Indeed lol. Thank you for your keen knowledge and patience evilc66. I have what I need now !
     
  22. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Good luck! I'm waiting on my kit as we speak. I decided to start out with the stock kit, but I do have dreams of increasing its size to 1000mmx1000mm too later on down the line.
     
  23. Charles Roseberry

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    You mentioned beefing up the bracing as well. Did you have a suggestion on that?

    Thank you again. I will need all the luck I can muster. The only thing Im lacking at the moment is the dewalt router and bits to get started (well and the essentials like some material to use lol). This is assuming that they have all the parts in when the ship it all to me. I did complete the order and while stressful to drop that kind of change, I have no doubt it will be well worth it in the end.
     
  24. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    I had some thoughts on how to brace everything for the additional length of the X and Y-axis.

    For the X-axis I was actually thinking of doubling up the C-Beams so that they would sit on top of each other. Only one would be driven. This would help prevent the rail from sagging, as well as increasing the mounting area for the Z-axis to increase it's stability. On the back side of all of that, I was going to mount a C-Beam extrusion. This would help tie the two linear rails on the front together, as well as reducing deflection. There are other ways to do this, but my intent was to stick with as many Openbuilds parts as possible just for sake of convenience. An aluminum or steel t-profile bolted to the back of the X-axis would do the job too.

    For the Y-axis, others have already started to come up with solutions for stabilizing the bed. One common way is to use linear bearings that ride on high precision rods mounted towards the outside edges of the table. @Teflon4 used this 12mm rail kit on his machine. These will work for his smaller setup, but SBR12 rails like this would be much better over 1000mm of length. The kit Teflon4 used is unsupported, so they will flex under heavy load. The SBR12 rails are fully supported and will be much stiffer. another length of V-Slot rail should be mounted underneath to provide a solid foundation. Another option is to use more C-Beam for similar results.
     
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  25. Charles Roseberry

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    I may do as a guy in a video I watched did and use some steel angle to add for support. We shall see when I get it all together. Those SBR12 precision rods are a very good idea for the Y-Axis.
     
  26. Builder+Bob

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    I have the C-Beam running and mostly it is great. Except, it stops midstream because of a hard stop. I read somewhere that I should put capacitors on the limit switches. I am unable to find that information.
    What size capacitor and where is the best place to put them?
     
  27. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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  28. Builder+Bob

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  29. Brandon Graham

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    Yes, thanks. We went with the lead screw for accuracy. If we can get it to work properly, we will upgrade to a belt-driven system with an optical encoder to get the final speed needed.
    We are in a transition with our EE, so I am just trying to put together a demo video of this moving about.
    Currently struggling to find a way for it to travel to all four corners and back to home.
     
  30. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    set XY 0,0 at the near left corner, then Gcode like this below will move it to near the ends of the table
    (assuming a s standard 12x12" C-beam)

    G90 G17 G21
    G0 X300
    G0 Y300
    G0 X0
    G0 Y0

    brief Gcode explanation
    G0 is the 'move at max speed' command (that is a zero no an oh)
    G1 would be ' move at feedrate doing a cut'
    G90 sets absolute measurement mode, G91 is relative movement
    G17 sets the active plane to XY, mainly affects how arcs are drawn
    G21 sets metric MM mode. G20 sets inch mode
     

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