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BULK-MAN 3D Store WORKBEE

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by ramps_eu, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. ramps_eu

    ramps_eu New
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    Hello to all!

    I am new to CNC and I am considering buying a Workbee from aliexpress here:
    US $974.0 |Aliexpress.com : Buy WorkBee CNC Router Machine Complete Kit 1.5*1.5M 4Axis Wood Working CNC Engraving Milling Machine DIY CNC Metal Carving Cutter from Reliable 3D Printer Parts & Accessories suppliers on BULK-MAN 3D Store

    I have about a million questions, but let me verbalize couple:

    -Deflection at big dimensions. Is it really necessary to have a 1,5m x 1,5m machine? Is it inferior in precission compared to smaller machine? I want a screw driven model.

    -What about the water cooled 2.2kW spindle? I think it is really nice, but what about the weight of cca 5kg on a 1,5m x 1,5m machine?

    -What about the driver board?US $105.0 |Aliexpress.com : Buy MACH3 USB CNC 5 Axis 100KHz Smooth Stepper Motion Control card breakout board+TB6600 4 Axis 4.5A Stepper Motor Driver board from Reliable 3D Printer Parts & Accessories suppliers on BULK-MAN 3D Store

    -What software to use? I know some of these chinese boards are limitted to Mach3. But isn't Mach3 a bit limmited in funcionality? Old software?
    I wanted to use GRBL, since I had some experience with it, and the seller offers it, but if I wanted the high toruqe Nema motors the grbl drivers wont be able to drive them (as far as I know).

    -is it necessary to use high torque motors? Advantages?

    -I want to mill guitars from hardwood.

    Thank you for replies :)
     
  2. Andreas Bockert

    Andreas Bockert Veteran
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    Hi

    Here are a few comments for you to consider.

    I'm of the opinion that 1.5kw or 2.2kw spindle is overkill for a hobby machine. The machine is going to have unacceptable deflection before you're even close to overpowering your spindle. The spindles will give you more options for collets however. (And quieter, but once it starts cutting that's not going to make a huge difference). So I would go for the lighter option.

    1.5x1.5m screw driven machine sounds like too big if it is using the standard 8mm lead screws. I'm running a 1x1m sphinx with the 8mm lead screws and that is pushing it already. At higher speeds screws have a tendency to whip. If you want a screw driven machine you should look for something smaller.

    I have bigger motors (don't know the exact specs but they're larger). You won't need the extra torque when running at the low speeds. However, it is helpful when running the motors fast. Due to the nature of steppers they drop in torque as the speed increases. Having a higher torque motor will give you usable power while running the machine fast.

    When cutting aluminum I think that a good recipe for a hobby grade machine is to use shallow passes with relatively large depth of cut. However, in order to avoid rubbing you need to run the passes at pretty high rate. I think that 100-150 IPM is not unreasonable. This is why I like having the bigger motors.

    I'm assuming that the grbl version comes equipped with DRV8825 drivers. These are actually quite capable drivers, but you need to add cooling! For a long time I ran DRV8825 + 36V PSU on my Sphinx and had no problems. I eventually swapped for some "real" drivers. (DM542 or similar). This didn't buy me any more power but a bit higher top speed and less motor "whine". If you add a fan to the DRV8825s I think they'll be plenty good to get you started even with bigger motors. (Admittedly, I run 36v setup). I don't have any experience with mach3.

    Overall, the kit seems really good for the price. I think the DRV8825s should be good to get you started and powerful enough even for upgraded motors. You always have the option to upgrade to external drivers down the line with grbl as well.

    I would not recommend getting a 1.5mx1.5m machine based on 8mm - lead screws. I think 12mm or probably 20mm would be needed for that length.

    I hope this information is helpful. Good luck and let us know how your build progresses.
     
    Christian James likes this.
  3. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    You most likely are already be aware of this, but these sites make it look like they are selling "official" products, but they are not. The cloned Chinese parts may be inferior...maybe not. The system is open source so there is nothing wrong with them making their own and selling it. That being said, if I were buying it, I most likely wouldn't choose any of their controller kits. The GRBL controller they list has an obsolete version of the CNC Shield, so some pins are different than the newest version of the CNC Shield. The Mach 3 version uses TB6600 drivers which sometimes are not even TB6600 drivers. If it were me ordering from here, I would get the GRBL kit and replace the outdated cloned version 3.0 CNC Shield, cloned Arduino, and under-powered DRV8825 drivers with a genuine BlackBox from OpenBuilds. Also, take a look at the motor specs. They are small. They are 1.26 Nm or 178.4 oz. The ones most people use on the larger OpenBuilds machines are 345 Oz. My personally designed CNC (850x1500mm) has 270 oz motors and I plan to upgrade to the OpenBuilds 345 Oz due to the mass it has to move around.

    At least they use 12mm screws according to the parts list.
     
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  4. ljvb

    ljvb Journeyman
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    You won't be saving much money. did you look at the shipping costs, 300+

    Quality wise, while I am not sure where OB sources their parts, many of the parts are actually built by the same OE manufacturers, so quality may be identical. This is just a guess. The bigger issue is support. You won't get very good support from a chinese manufacturer from a warranty or defective equipment standpoint. And eve if they are responsive, the shipping costs and additional time might negate some of the possible cost savings.
     
    Rick 2.0 likes this.
  5. ramps_eu

    ramps_eu New
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    Thank you for all the replies!
    To adress the issue of not ordering from OpenBuilds is that I am located in Europe, where Ooznest is the maker of workbee in UK but the price is little higher.

    Ok you got me thinking about the GRBL. I will get the newest GRBL arduino shield and four of these DM542 drivers from Aliexpress.

    I will buy the option with the stronger motors high torque 2.45N.m They will be the bulkier ones.

    OK I dont want to make much compromise on the dimensions, I would be willing to go 1000x1500.

    What about the spindle opinions? Is the 2.2kW really overkill? Or should I just get a normal router like the makita RT0700?
    Is the rpm regulation necessary for machining hardwood?

    Oh and what voltage to use? Now I am confused! I was planning on using a 12V supply I already have.
     
  6. Christian James

    Christian James Veteran
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    I think a 2.2kw spindle is overkill for a home based router, its up to you though. Also, I would go for a 30 to 36v power supply - 12 volts is way too low for those motors and drivers.
     
  7. ramps_eu

    ramps_eu New
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    Thank you for the replies!

    So what do you think about this configuration?
    1500x1500 (it has T12 drive screws)
    RT0700 spindle (is the lack of RPM regulation a problem?)
    GRBL arduino controll board with 4xDM542
    High Torque Nema 2.45 N.m
    36V Power Supply (what power should I select for these motors?)
     
  8. Christian James

    Christian James Veteran
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    I use an RT0700 router because I already had one and its been perfectly good.on my 1010 style Workbee. Not sure what you mean by "(is the lack of RPM regulation a problem?" The router has an adjustable speed control (1 to 6) producing speeds from 10,000 to 30,000 rpm. Your "GRBL arduino" is, I presume an UNO which will work fine with those drivers and motors. I would set the power supply to around 32V and adjust the driver current to the appropriate settings.
     
  9. Andreas Bockert

    Andreas Bockert Veteran
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    I have the Makita as well and have had no problems. I think a spindle might be able to spin slower which can be advantageous at times. I almost never run over 15krpm. Most of the time I leave it at 10k.

    I have wired my router for auto start but it required me to add a solid state relay. I’m guessing that a spindle will be easier to control from grbl.

    Many spindles also want 220 which is an issue in the us.

    If I didn’t have a router and I lived in a 220v country I would probably go for a 1.5k air cooled spindle. Depending on the difference in price of course.
     
    ramps_eu likes this.
  10. Giarc

    Giarc Master
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    You do not need a CNC shield to run grbl with an Arduino board. The pinout you need is located here gnea/grbl and here is how you hook up the dq542 ma drivers. C-Beam cnc
     
  11. ramps_eu

    ramps_eu New
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    Thank you for replies!

    OK so now after really going through the various pricing etc I decided to go for the 1500x1500 mm Workbee clone from BulkMan3D on aliexpress.
    This has T12 lead screws (12mm dia, 2mm pitch) and a 1.5kW air cooled spindle as Andreas Bocker suggested two posts up.
    I am still confused about the powersupply, in the kit you have a 24V 350W supply.

    My questions are:
    -Is it a big difference to have a 1000x1500mm work table oposed to 1500x1500mm? I will be making mostly guitars, signs and furniture.

    -Is the 24V supply enough? (it seems it is since the seller tested the machine with it)

    -Should I pursue the 2.45Nm Nema 23 High Torque motors or should I stick with what's in the kit and probably works just fine the Nema 23 1.26Nm?

    -And most importantly should I go with the Mach3 option (CAD->Vectric->Mach3->Workbee) with the STB5100 usb and TB6600 drivers (which I know nothing about)???
    Or the GRBL kit with DRV8825 drivers (CAD->Vectric->GRBL->Workbee)

    Thank you guys! Of course I will post a build!
     
  12. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    The only advice I can offer is about the machine size. If you will be making guitars you will want the most rigid machine you can get. X axis cutting dimension on a 1000mm workbee is 800mm MAX - slightly less in reality - if that will allow a guitar body width to fit then the 1500 * 1000 will be better than the 1500 * 1500 (less flex in the X axis).
    Alex.
     
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  13. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    ^^^^^^ What he said. ^^^^^

    Size it for what you know you need not for what might never come along. Size is the enemy of rigidity. The bigger a system gets the more flexible it becomes and the worse the cuts get. I've been watching the forum since its early days and have seen system after system rebuilt again and again and again where they tried to go big and had less than desirable results.
     
    Alex Chambers, ramps_eu and Giarc like this.
  14. RV6APilot

    RV6APilot Journeyman
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    My recommendation is to buy from either Ooznest or OpenBuilds. You will get what you pay for and excellent support.
    As for going big, a 1010 is as big as I would go with the size of C-channel used in these kits.
     
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  15. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    I second that. There are pluses and minuses with the Ooznest offering, but if you are new to cnc the support you will get from Ooznest is second to none. There is a body of expertise building up here too. If you get a faulty part from Ooznest the replacement will usually be in the post to you the day you tell them - I doubt you will get that via aliexpress or bulkman!
    Alex.
     
    #15 Alex Chambers, Jun 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    RV6APilot likes this.
  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Resident Builder Project Maker Builder

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    Also checkout the Leadmachine, no custom plates, just off the shelf OpenBuilds components. [email protected] can give you the full list of official EU distributors too if you want to get the real good stuff, but shop around
     
    Alex Chambers, Giarc and RV6APilot like this.

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