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Blackbox onboard relay problem

Discussion in 'Controller Boards' started by Touma02, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. Touma02

    Touma02 New
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    I use blackbox with VFD controller,

    I would like to give startup permission to the VFD with blackbox's onboard relay. ( i'am not satisfied with only 0-10V)

    I test but the problem is if i write M3 S1000 the relay is not activated. the relay isn't activated before s17000.

    $30 = 24000
    $31 = 0

    So, when i 'am at S17000 the relay is activated, i write s15000 for exemple, the relay stay activated. i continue, S10000, S9000 ok, so ok i test S1000 and the relay is not longer activated

    Is it possible to know the conditions for activated on board relay ? can i change this conditions ?

    thx
     
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Relay doesnt support PWM. So use the recommended 0-10v setup, or if you have a v2.6 or later BlackBox, set the Relay Jumper to Spindle Dir. And then refer to gnea/grbl
     
  3. Touma02

    Touma02 New
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    I don’t understand your answer. I don’t use pwm with relay. I have to shunt pin DCM and FORWARD on vfd to unlock it. That i would use the relay to do this instead of a simple wire

    so i don’t understand Why the relay stats depend of spindle speed
    For me with oNly m3 thé relay have to be activated
     
    #3 Touma02, Jun 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Becuase its wired in parallel to the PWM output depending on the jumper position
     
  5. Touma02

    Touma02 New
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    I don’t understand There is link betWeen 0-10v and onboard relay ? How can i do ?
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Grbl only has one output for Spindle out. That is used for PWM. Pwm is piped though a opamp circuit to make the 0-10v signal. Relay CAN (up to you) be wired to the same pin via the Jumper. BUT as you are already using that signal for the 0-10v you shouldn't use that for the Relay too.

    So, checkout this advice. You really dont need the relay wired in!
     
  7. Touma02

    Touma02 New
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    There is nothing about spindle dir in documentation ? Can you tel me about ? Sorry for this question but where version is writed ? Blackbox is in electrical cabinet so i don’t see all face

    thx
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Right, now that I am in the office and in front of a computer, I can give you a longer reply (typing on mobile devices always comes short)

    1) First of all you DO NOT need the relay to wire up a VFD. You just need 0-10v and GND going to the correct analog input. Then the VFD just has to be setup correctly. You wire DCM to FOR permanently. There is no need to overcomplicate the setup by using the relay (which actually exists for this use case: OpenBuilds BlackBox 4X Documentation - Plasma trigger)
    With the correct VFD parameter, the spindle starts with M3Sxxxx and stops with M3S0 or M5 - just using the 0-10v signal

    2) The USE_SPINDLE_DIR_AS_ENABLE_PIN jumper exists in newer boards for some more esoteric use cases (non standard VFDs, or for example as an Enable trigger for some laser setups, etc) - it's not really documented because its not something normal people needs. As I originally mentioned:

    Note, first option: Use the 0-10v only setup as recommended. The second part of that paragraph refers you to the Grbl config, as soon as we do that, its obviously meant to indicate an "advanced" function, therefore the need to recompile firmware and read all that text - if you had a use for it, you would know what that is all about. So in retrospect, I probably shouldn't even have added that as an extension to the first suggestion, as it seems you focussed on that instead now :) - of course it was added for a) hoping to expand your knowledge of the extra features in Grbl (even though you don't NEED it, it is there, you can still use it, but as its not a NEEDED function, we won't be much help in getting you to use that - read the documentation, apply some logic, and use it if you want to) and also it could help the next person that comes along referred from a search term about "USE_SPINDLE_DIR_AS_ENABLE_PIN" function

    Here:
    version-bb.png


    I have twice in the thread above linked you to : gnea/grbl - just click through and read:
    Pasting it here for you: but do read the Grbl wiki/source comments - lots to learn in there

    Code:
    // By default on a 328p(Uno), Grbl combines the variable spindle PWM and the enable into one pin to help
    // preserve I/O pins. For certain setups, these may need to be separate pins. This configure option uses
    // the spindle direction pin(D13) as a separate spindle enable pin along with spindle speed PWM on pin D11.
    // NOTE: This configure option only works with VARIABLE_SPINDLE enabled and a 328p processor (Uno).
    // NOTE: Without a direction pin, M4 will not have a pin output to indicate a difference with M3.
    // NOTE: BEWARE! The Arduino bootloader toggles the D13 pin when it powers up. If you flash Grbl with
    // a programmer (you can use a spare Arduino as "Arduino as ISP". Search the web on how to wire this.),
    // this D13 LED toggling should go away. We haven't tested this though. Please report how it goes!
    // #define USE_SPINDLE_DIR_AS_ENABLE_PIN // Default disabled. Uncomment to enable.
    
    All the Jumper does is connect that Enable pin to the relay to make the above work without you having to solder wires etc
     
    #8 Peter Van Der Walt, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  9. Touma02

    Touma02 New
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    It's very complicated ! lol I will use contact in my coollant relay with Normal closed contact of my emergency stop i think. thank you for all
     
  10. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Ideally an Emergency stop should cut power to everything. Wired into extension cord prior to power strip for example.
    The emergency could be that the VFD caught on fire (; - in which case sending it the "disable yourself" signal won't stop the flames...

    That's why we recommend a Router instead of a VFD.... Can't get simpler than: OpenBuilds BlackBox 4X Documentation - especially for beginners
     
  11. Touma02

    Touma02 New
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    It’s ok, firstly i think i can use m3 and sXxx. In my opinion my set up is most safely than only 0-10v to stop spindle. For fire i have near me the outlet. And second point the vdf doesn’t work if cooling is not activated :)
     
  12. Diego Colonnello

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    Good Morning (for me), in my case i am using the Relay to turn on and off the makita router (i made an interface board with a relay activated by 24v, switched by the relay)
    the jumper is on M3/M5 position
    it works if i issue an S20000 M3 and stop at M5
    but my code brings the spindle speed from the post processor and writes S12000
    12000 does not trigger the relay...
    am i doing something wrong?
    should i simply edit the gcode manually?
    should i expect S1000 M3 to trigger the relay?
    Thanks so much
     
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Set $30=1000. Any S value over 1000 will be seen as ON
     
  14. Diego Colonnello

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    Thansk so much Peter, i am home now, i will give it a try tomorrow as soon as i get to the office...
     
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  15. Diego Colonnello

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    perfect Peter Thanks so much, it all works super perfect, only waiting for semi auto tool change with a tool setter :)
     
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  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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