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(Black box + VFD) Below 14000 Rpm. spindle wont start?

Discussion in 'Controller Boards' started by Morten Dahl, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Morten Dahl

    Builder

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    Hi :)

    I have a chinese VFD 3 Kw. Spindle, controlled by 0-10V inputs from my Black box.

    When i send a M3 SXXX below 14000 Rpm. The spindle dosent start?
    My Black box is making a low "Hauling" or "beeping" kind of sound and the display on my VFD will show the right rpms.

    When sending a M3 S14000 (and above), the spindle will start.

    (This was not a problem before i was starting controlling it from the BB and just manual from the VFD.)



    Thanks

    Morten


    [18:19:51] [ ] Grbl 1.1f ['$' for help]

    [18:19:51] [ ] ok

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $0=10 ;Step pulse time, microseconds

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $1=255 ;Step idle delay, milliseconds

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $2=0 ;Step pulse invert, mask

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $3=6 ;Step direction invert, mask

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $4=1 ;Invert step enable pin, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $5=0 ;Invert limit pins, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $6=0 ;Invert probe pin, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $10=1 ;Status report options, mask

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $11=0.020 ;Junction deviation, millimeters

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $12=0.002 ;Arc tolerance, millimeters

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $13=0 ;Report in inches, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $20=0 ;Soft limits enable, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $21=0 ;Hard limits enable, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $22=0 ;Homing cycle enable, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $23=3 ;Homing direction invert, mask

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $24=100.000 ;Homing locate feed rate, mm/min

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $25=1500.000 ;Homing search seek rate, mm/min

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $26=250 ;Homing switch debounce delay, milliseconds

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $27=5.000 ;Homing switch pull-off distance, millimeters

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $30=24000 ;Maximum spindle speed, RPM

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $31=0 ;Minimum spindle speed, RPM

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $32=0 ;Laser-mode enable, boolean

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $100=160.000 ;X-axis steps per millimeter

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $101=320.000 ;Y-axis steps per millimeter

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $102=320.000 ;Z-axis steps per millimeter

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $110=4000.000 ;X-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $111=4000.000 ;Y-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $112=2000.000 ;Z-axis maximum rate, mm/min

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $120=120.000 ;X-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $121=120.000 ;Y-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $122=120.000 ;Z-axis acceleration, mm/sec^2

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $130=1175.000 ;X-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $131=652.000 ;Y-axis maximum travel, millimeters

    [18:19:52] [ $$ ] $132=135.000 ;Z-axis maximum travel, millimeters
     
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

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    Forgot to remove the Jumper? docs:blackbox:jumper-relay [OpenBuilds Documentation]

    VFD parameters, but may be set by manufacturer: some spindles have a minimum RPM for cooling purposes, so VFD parameter may be set that way to protect the spindle.
     
  3. Morten Dahl

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    I have tried to check all the settings on my VFD. Pn 11 (Minimun runtime frequency with range...) is set to 001.50 Hz.

    I have 10V in and GND wired to the Toolhead connector and GND and FWD to the relay

    154808337_247888123484507_3447535795622699330_n.jpg
    155174357_3707983605905350_7010967443625935300_n.jpg
     
  4. Morten Dahl

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    Hi Peter. Thanks for fast reply.

    The jumper was set to M3/M5 and not removed. I just tried to remove it and it didnt help. With the jumper removed, it would not even make the spindle start above 14000 rpms.

    My Black board is v2.3
     
  5. Morten Dahl

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    Mabye im missing an important VFD setting

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Discuss with your VFD vendor. Definitely the parameters
     
  7. Morten Dahl

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    Okay i try to get contact.

    So should the Jumper be on M3/M5 or removed? When removed i dont start, but send signal to the VFD (Since it displays the right RPM)
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

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    DId you work through the docs and associated setup guides: docs:blackbox:connect-vfd [OpenBuilds Documentation]

    Can I assume you wired your enable via the Relay by mistake?
    You cannot use the relay as an Enable unless you also recompile Grbl with the "Use Dir as Enable" option, and move the jumper to that position - see docs:blackbox:jumper-relay [OpenBuilds Documentation]

    Keeping the jumper on M3/M5 is not suitable for variable speed spindles (as mentioned docs:blackbox:jumper-relay [OpenBuilds Documentation] as the relay will chatter when you use the PWM on the Spindle line for PWM or 0-10v) not only is the chattering relay a terrible way to run an enable, during lower PWM duty cycles it won't stay on long enough to work at all as an enable

    Though we usually dont use the relay for an enable at all: as per the VFD page of our docs, you'll see we typically set the minimum freq to control on/off, and wire the Enable either with a jumper wire, or via an emergency stop. We dont normally use the relay method except for VFDs that doesn't support turning the VFD off over 0-10v by using the minimum freq!/rpm parameter
     
    sharmstr likes this.
  9. Morten Dahl

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    I did use the Relay to enable the spindle :-/
    Before i saw your latest reply i did this method: OpenBuilds BlackBox to HuanYang VFD Configuration

    Tomorrow i will remove the jumper and use at jumper wire to enable the spindle!

    Thanks for the help
     
    sharmstr and Peter Van Der Walt like this.

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