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all axis motors showing red indicators

Discussion in 'OpenBuilds Bug Report' started by Larry Bogosh, May 26, 2020.

  1. Larry Bogosh

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    I recently purchased the Black Box Motion Control for my own CNC router build. after wiring up the motors, all operated as expected for 2 days. On day three all motor axis lit up on the controller. Please let me know what I can do next. I'm a little frustrated at the moment. I started my build in January and was hoping to be up and running by July 1.
     
    #1 Larry Bogosh, May 26, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2020
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Indicator indicates
    - overtemp (adjust current down, check fan)
    - overcurrent (adjust current down)
    - undervoltage (check psu)
    - short circuit (check wiring)
     
  3. Larry Bogosh

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    Thank you for the input. Managed to clear the red lights. Now I seem to have a problem with the USB connection. The light on the controller flashes when I plug it in but then remains dark. This looks like a printer cable should I just replace it? Thanks again.
     
  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Lights doesnt tell much
    - Does it enumerate and show up in device manager
    - have you installed the drivers
    - have you tried connecting, what does the log say (screenshot)
     
  5. Larry Bogosh

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    Thanks for your input. I was just able to get back to this now. Yesterday I started everything up. Laptop first which opened up with a windows update. Brought up the Open Builds software and started receiving an update that I was able to view in the serial console. Everything was running smooth enough so I decided to run the surfacing/ flattening program. My table is 5' x 5' so it took about 30 min to run. After completion, I jogged the Y+ axis and after about 12" of travel the Y motor stalled. I clicked the abort and was not able to move any axis after that. I also noticed I was no longer connected. I tried reconnecting and could not. screenshot enclosed 2020-06-14.png
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Windows shut down the port:
    Possible reasons:
    - EMI (route usb far from motor and power cables. Especially router power cable)
    - short circuit (check wiring for any loose strands or incorrectly wired accessories in particular Limit switches)
    - wrong FTDI driver (see section 4.1 of docs.openbuilds.com/blackbox
    - USB Selective Suspend (see section 4.2 of docs.openbuilds.com/blackbox)
     
  7. Larry Bogosh

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  8. Larry Bogosh

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    FYI I disconnected all but the power supply and USB to the Black Box. Is that a printer cable to the Black Box? I can buy a longer cable. I’m stretched as far away as I can be with the 4’ provided. Thanks
     
  9. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Long USB cables are even worse - you want to controller close to the PC, short as possible USB cable (longer cable = more resistance in wires)

    You want the noisy power carrying cables (Stepper motors, Router's power cable) to be routed away (definately not parallel, or in the same cable chain for example) as low voltage signal wires due to Crosstalk - Wikipedia

    Is it reconnected now, EMI is a short burst that knocks the port out. Reboot and you are back

    If not, check wiring
     
  10. Larry Bogosh

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  11. Larry Bogosh

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    Wiring was all checked. System rebooted. Same results. The port does open to check for firmware but cannot find any and then closes. Do I need a new controller? I'm hesitant to buy another because I don't know what could have happened. Everything was operating great.
     
  12. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Same here, thats always the key to prevent it happening again.

    The only unknowns we haven't really asked about:


    - What Power Supply are you using
    and
    - Are the motors from OpenBuilds or elsewhere?


    Between where it worked, and where it stopped, something happened really badly. We see a lot of user complaints in 99% of the time when something like this happens it really really is wiring, it might look right but have a loose strand poking out of a connector shorting to a wire with the insulation stripped back a little too far next to it. Or a slightly loose screw terminal that makes contact, but the wire does make/break as it wiggles back and forth - causing arcing, high resistance connections, or EMF collapse (if a motor wire suddenly disconnects the collapsing magnetic field in the coils induces high voltage in the remaining coil, which backfreeds into the driver. It can even backfeed into the PSU via the mosfets inside the stepper driver, damaging other components on the board


    Ever moved axes by hand (spinning plugged in motors turns them into generators, also backfeeding. One should only move the machine from software)

    Work through the (new documentation section, just added this week) here: docs:blackbox:faq-usb-connection-failed [OpenBuilds Documentation]
     
    #12 Peter Van Der Walt, Jun 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  13. Larry Bogosh

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    Ok. Motors are from stepper online. The other items you sent I will have to check end of day I’m central time. The only wire issue I had was with the Z motor. Found a loose wire with the connector. I know using stranded wire it’s easy to have a strand out of place. I had corrected this before the incident.
     
  14. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Did you ever try it with ONLY the USB lead (no power supply) - long shot, but might rule out faulty power supply.
    Alex.
     
  15. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    That loose wire could explain the incident that killed things... So if you recheck all connections you should be safe with a new one. I would also recommend our motors to remove another untested/unproven combination
     
  16. Larry Bogosh

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  17. Larry Bogosh

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    Yes. This morning I had the usb to the controller without power to the controller. Motors light goes on so I know my USB should be good. But I also noticed the tool light was on as well. Should the controller be grounded?
     
  18. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Odd observation, no relation. Motor LED just shows Grbl started up (and has $4=1 and $1=255 set) - nothing to with USB

    Do a USB connection test... From control - with nothing else connected
     
  19. Larry Bogosh

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    Correct. I had nothing else connected which is why I didn’t know why the tool LED was on.
     
  20. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Indeed. So... were you able to connect or not
     
  21. Larry Bogosh

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    I was not able to correct.
     
  22. Larry Bogosh

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    Yes I am using the Meanwell power supply.
     
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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  24. Larry Bogosh

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    While I was waiting on the new controller to arrive I had gone thru every connection on the machine. I removed the Open Builds connector and examined for loose connections, a stray strand of wire and noticed that all the wire connections were flattened by the connectors. I did not find any issues with the wiring. The machine is running as expected. I’m very pleased with the performance. My question now is the open door switch. I assume I can use this as an e-stop. If you could confirm that would be good. That would be the last wiring for me to do. Thanks
     
  25. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    We would advise an Endstop to be a device wired into Power (before the power strip) so that in case of an emergency, hitting the e-stop cuts power to everything!
    What if the router catches on fire? What if the PSU catches on fire? Who knows what the emergency will be, are you really happy just pausing motion?! Cutting all the power, together, much safer
     
  26. Larry Bogosh

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    I guess I was looking to stop the machine without running to the software to stop it. The VFD instructions were not to have any switching between it and the circuit breaker. I guess I’ve always had an e-stop on any machinery and feel uncomfortable without. I could just e-stop the PSU. I have a fire extinguisher wall mounted 2 feet from the machine.
     
  27. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    :) Then you should just not refer to it as an estop/emergency stop.
    Door functions as a feedhold, see docs:blackbox:connect-door-sensor [OpenBuilds Documentation] and gnea/grbl
     

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