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Adamantine

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Kyo, Mar 4, 2015.

  1. mgcrose

    mgcrose New
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    I have a quick question about assembling the extruder head. How does the direct e3d-v6 hotend connect to the head with the ptfe tube inserted? The hotend sits flush with the bottom of the head, but the hotend has a collet that snaps into the top to keep the ptfe stable. Do I just put the ptfe in and get rid of the collet?
     
  2. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    When assembling your E3D hotend you want to keep the black collet that retains the ptfe tubing. However instead of cutting the ptfe flush with the top of the black collet leave some extra. This extra ptfe will go inside the printed extruder body to meet with the hobbed bolt. You may need to drill out and counter sink this area of the extruder body depending on your print quality to allow room for the ptfe and black collet so your hot end sits flush.

    This is not at all necessary, I have one with it and one without. How ever it does make filament changes much easier and I recommend it. Here is a cutaway photo example from E3D's website giving you a idea of how it should look.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. mgcrose

    mgcrose New
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    ok, I thought that might be how this should work - I saw the same picture while searching around for an answer. Maybe I'm missing something, but the design of the printer head makes it impossible to install the hotend if it has a length of ptfe tube sticking out the top. Because half of the hotend attachment collar is printed as part of the printer head, the hotend needs to be installed from the open side of the collar. So you can't maneuver the PTFE into the hole and then slip the hotend into the collar without deforming the ptfe. I just ruined the section of ptfe that I had trying to get this to work.

    And I did try a shorter section of ptfe, but it was really difficult to get the filament into the tube if it isn't right under the hobbed bolt. So I can see how filament changes would be a pain in the butt.

    So any more insights on how to get the ptfe into the hole and then the hotend into the collar would be appreciated. I'm off to order some ptfe so I can try again.
     
  4. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    I added the ptfe as a after thought so I already had the hotend installed. When I decided to install a length of ptfe tube I did it from the top down into the hotend with the hobbed bolt removed. I have not tried installing the hot end with the ptfe tube pre installed from the bottom. I can try and grab some pics tomorrow.
     
  5. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    mgcrose, Here is a short video showing how I went about it.
     
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  6. mgcrose

    mgcrose New
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    Thanks for the video, Kyo. That helps! I got tripped up by the print head - it has a small hole for the filament, so I had assumed that the head was designed to not have ptfe above the hobbed bolt. That left me trying to figure out how to insert the ptfe into the section below the hobbed bolt - and I can tell you that's pretty much not possible. But drilling out the hole and inserting ptfe from the top resolves the issue.

    I would update the sketchup and stl file for the print head to have a 4mm hole.
     
  7. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    Here are the new stl and skp files for the extruder main body with the enlarged filament ptfe tube hole. Increased in size to just over 4mm, This should allow for a nice fit for the ptfe tube to be installed.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Woob i san

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    What speed can you print at and still be good looking?
     
  9. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    I will have some real world numbers for you very soon, Work has kept me away from the house more then I like over the last few months. However rest assured I have not abandoned this build or the community here at openbuilds. I will be diving back into my builds and posting updates more regularly as soon as this current job is finished... Fingers crossed only another week or two..

    Given the difference in screw specs, I know it will not be a direct comparison... I am comfortably printing with my Fina build at 80mm - 100mm/s depending on print with out pushing it. You can check out my Fina build and the Lautr3k build for screw specs and photos of prints I have done with that printer.
     
  10. Woob i san

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    Thank you for taking the time to reply, i really like this build and wanted to ditch my original Prusa i3 due to its limitations even thought its a decent machine, it just a pain to update or mod given the design. Also i found some hight torque lead screws at Lead Screws - Torqspline® Screws & Quiknuts® - Roton Products which have a little more umph. Also i wanted to widen it to do a build volume of 200 depth 300 witdt and 300 height i know it sounds wierd but i have a little under 500 mm depth for the printer to sit on but the bed can move past that.
     
  11. Woob i san

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  12. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    Scaling it up to have a wider and taller build area should not be a problem. Mgcrose did just that on page two for a full 305x305x305 build volume..

    While my intentions for this build are to use all openbuild parts, including leadscrews and nuts.
    It would not be to hard to adapt the tr8x20 leadscrews. New nut mounting plates would need to be drawn up. Or custom nuts made to match the OB units. I believe Gumpwa Luong and a few others have used that exact screw on there lautr3k builds with successes..

    @Mark Carew, is the nut block available untapped? That would allow the builder to adapt screws like a 8x1mm for z axis or the above tr8x20 for x/y depending on their needs without having to change mounting plates for the nut. They could tap to suit..

    @Gumpwa Luong , Could you chime in? What are you thoughts and experiences with the tr8x20 lead screw setup on your lautr3k?
     
    #72 Kyo, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  13. Woob i san

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    Sorry im new to the 3D printing world, i built an original Prusa I3 kit and while it is ok it is limited in terms of easy access to change out parts. So it is not an 8mm screw? so by the TR8X20 its a 20mm size?
     
  14. Woob i san

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    Also thanks for being helpful, i am learning about 3D printing and i am having alot of fun and learning. The 3D printer community is great.
     
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  15. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    No problem, I am happy to help. The community is a great resource and I myself have learned so much with each step and question. Everyone has always been so helpful to me I like to try and do the same.

    You are correct it is indeed a 8mm diameter screw. What differs between the open builds tr8x8 screw and the robotdigg tr8x20 screw is the lead, pitch and starts.

    openbuild screw.
    tr8x8-2p = 8mm dia with a 8mm lead 2mm pitch

    robotdigg screw.
    tr8x20-2.5p = 8mm dia with a 20mm lead 2.5mm pitch

    The robotdigg lead screw will travel 20mm per one full revolution and the openbuilds lead screw will travel 8mm for every one revolution.

    While they are both 8mm lead screws they have a different number of starts and a diffrent number of tpi. So the openbuild nut I have designed around can not be used with the robotdigg lead screw.

    However, like I was asking Mark. If the Openbuilds nut block could be purchased untapped given they are both 8mm lead screws. You could buy the appropriate tap and cut the thread to match any screw you wanted. Depending on the cost of the tap needed going this route for a single build may not be ideal.

    In that case redesigning the two nut mounting plates for x and y axis to accept the robotdigg leadscrew nut. Would be a cheaper solution.
     
  16. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Not at the moment but this is a great idea and we will look into making it available untapped in the future.
    Thank you for the feedback @Kyo :thumbsup:
     
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  17. Val Cocora

    Val Cocora Well-Known
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    hi mark,

    a humble reminder regarding longer screws: while the 8 mm is only good for about 4 feet or so, i hope you guys at openbuilds will look sometime in the future at getting larger and longer screws which could be used for the full length of the 1500 mm rails. i used single start trapezoidal 16x3 mm screws for my project, and they cover the entire 1145 mm depth of of my four inverted z axis. while at it, maybe some special consideration should be given to z axis alone, namely, single start screws with small pitch. mechanically, this takes the onus away from having to resort to micro stepping to print fine layers in high resolution. other than that, multiple start screws are great mostly for x and y axis, where there's a need for higher speeds.
    i'd be more than happy to be able to purchase all my lead screws from openbuilds rather than having to shop around.
    so let your boss know, tell him it's your idea, and get a fat raise and a nice vacation wherever you want, for it.
    oh, wait, you are the boss. :)
    bulls eye!
     
  18. Val Cocora

    Val Cocora Well-Known
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    as a married man myself, i stand corrected.
    should have addressed the post to Ms. Carew :)
     
  19. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    While not larger leads we have been working on a new rack and pinion system for longer runs. There are existing racks out there now that should also work and there are a few Builds here using them.
    This is great feedback and my boss and myself thanks you :D
     
  20. Gumpwa Luong

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    @Gumpwa Luong , Could you chime in? What are you thoughts and experiences with the tr8x20 lead screw setup on your lautr3k?[/QUOTE]
    This is the first time I've used leadscrews, so take my experience with a grain of salt :) It works GREAT! I was afraid at first the 8mm vs 10mm of the original BOM would be a problem, but the machine seems to work just fine. If I could choose again, I would probably get a larger motor. But it seems to go ~250mm/s no problem! As for the quality, really great; I've had an i2 and i3, but the prints from leadscrews look so much smoother. Definitely recommended.
     
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  21. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    Oh I look forward to what could be done with the addition of rack and pinion to the line up.. :D

    Okay I am back to working on Adamantine, sorry for the hold up guys work has been crazy with me away from home for most of it. Now I am back in town and on night shift for a guy a few miles from my house, so I have my days to work on projects.

    Placed a ebay order for a few things I still had to pick up. Here is a list (more of a self reminder ) of what still needs done.

    -Filament spool mount
    --draw up mount
    --print and bolt up mount

    -Mount heat bed
    --cork
    --springs
    --glass build plate

    -Mount Power supply and Ramps
    --route wires
    --clean up and shorten wiring

    -Update and finalize sketchup model
    -Finalize marlin and upload sketch

    That is most of it, It is really not to far from printing, I have it set up next to my c-beam machine build in my new work space. ( aka: I have spread to another spare room.. o_O hahaha )
    I really look forward to getting the cnc up and running and cutting the plates for this... It is going to be a lot of learning which is a 90% of the fun for me...

    I have had a couple of good ideas sent in via pm/email. So not right away but a V2 will also be arriving with.
    -option to use the Anti-backlash nuts ( they do not currently fit my x-axis plate )
    -Single z-axis motor driving both z leadscrews via a closed loop belt
    -8mm x 1mm single start z-axis leadscrews
    -32bit controller
     
  22. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    It is printing well!! I just need to do final clean up, wire routing and electronics mounting. I will update with a current progress post then..

    Parts :D I still have two ebay orders inbound ( misc. wiring some bearings ect. "Build Clean Up" parts ). But thought it appropriate my Pi's arrived on "Pi" day! :thumbsup: One of them will run Adamantine. I am still working away on this printer slowly but surely not much more I can do in tell the last of my parts arrive I am afraid. I hate waiting lol

    [​IMG]
     
  23. stargeezer

    stargeezer Journeyman
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    Congrats on the progress Kyo (and the improved schedule). I hope UPS flies for you.
     
  24. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    Thanks. I agree. Nothing like a crazy schedule to throw everything out of wack. Getting everything back on track though.

    Tonight I started to make the replacement parts for Adamantine now I have the C-beam.. One part down several to go :thumbsup:

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. JAPartridge

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    Soooo what ever became of this build? I've got a friend who's curious about leadscrew driven 3d printers as his acrylic Ali Express special has been leaving a lot to be desired. :rolleyes:
     
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  26. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    It was finished and the parts I kept became other builds. The aluminum plates sit in my closet waiting for me to build the next iteration.

    Not sure when I will get back to it. A lot of the updated cad files I modeled have been lost when my site was wiped. Notice a lot of missing images in this build? They were lost at the same time. I am still recoiling from the lost data I stored on my website. Luckily all of the original files were posted to the files tab. So not all has been lost.

    Also check out the lautr3k build another awesome lead screw driven printer..
     
  27. JAPartridge

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    I did notice the missing files... but wasn't going to mention them... figured it had to be something traumatic! I'll check out lautr3k. My friend still doubts that a lead screw driven system would be fast enough for printing.
     
  28. Val Cocora

    Val Cocora Well-Known
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    maybe a high helix lead screw, or multiple travel would be faster.
    will definitely upgrade my printer to linear slides and ball screws next chance i get.
    from what I've learned so far, screws are better suited than timing belts for large 3d printers.
     

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