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Problems of lock with Nema 23 Steppers

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Excalibur67, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. Excalibur67

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    Hi at all, i'm having a strange problem with the steppers (all), these steppers are new and are High Torque model and are linked to a Blackbox. When i start to do some jogging at high speed (from 1500mm/m to upper) the stepper stop and issue a bad sound like a siren in random way. I attached a video just to explain better.... I disassembled the steppers and tested it with nothing connected and makes that noise as soon as I increase the speed of jogging.
    The strange thing is that all steppers do the same thing ... will it be the Blackbox? ... the control software? some settings? .... any ideas? the parameters of control software are visible in the video linked.
    Thanks in advance
    Giuseppe
     
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Check that you have a machine profile configured properly 533.x steps per mm as shown briefly in the video doesnt match our standard machine profiles, so I assume you edited the values? (Our leadscrew machines are 199.1 usually). When changing to such a higher a steps-per-mm value you also need to adjust your acceleration settings accordingly: Our included profiles are setup to work as-is, when modifying settings from default expect them to have impact on other settings too.

    See gnea/grbl

    If acceleration is too fast, the motor cannot overcome enertia and thus stalls
     
  3. Excalibur67

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    Hi ... the machine profile is customized.. 1mt x 2mt with leadscrew 12mm TR12x3 start 1 then the steps/m are according with this config i guess... then thw blackbox is not adviceable it's better to use controller and drivers differents?
    Thanks
     
  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    No that hardware is fine, but when you changed steps per mm, you should understand that other settings like acceleration,etc may also need changing to match your configuration that is different from the stock machine, and thus why the stock profile stalls. Just edit your settings, follow the link I included in the reply above for all the information. Grbl Wiki is a treasure trove of info, worth reading the whole wiki to properly understand Grbl
     
  5. Excalibur67

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    Ok.. thanks.. my goal is to arrive at max 3000mm/m for all axes... to use fine my build
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Those leadscrews are high accuracy, low speed, being only 3mm pitch. Our stock screws are 8 mm pitch, so keep that in mind, the low pitch on your screws will slow you down for sure. Spend some time tuning your Grbl parameters (may take a few hours to dial in maximums....) first, but do keep in mind those screws are not ideal for fast feedrates

    3mm pitch, single start

    Our screws are TR8*2 but 4 start, so each rotation is 2mm x 4 helixes = 8mm.
     
  7. Excalibur67

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    Ok... but for 2mt of build is not adviceable to use 8mm.... nut in relation at your experience how fast i can go with this build and i can cut naterial like mdf,aluminium, plexy etc... for this i ask about the speed because if i want cut fir ecample the mdf i must go with a feed rate almost of 40 mm sec
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Correct, but you might get 12mm leadscrews in an 8mm pitch which is closer to the stock profiles. Picking a 3mm pitch is a done deal now, and that is a limitation because it needs more rotations to travel the same distance, and thus will limit maximum feedrate, for the same maximum RPM. Regardless, all I am saying is, expect to put in the work to develop a profile that plays nice with your changes :)

    Well, very hard to say, but with the stock configs you can get up over 5000mm/min, so with no consideration for other factors (enertia of heavier screw, higher fricting in the bigger blocks, etc for which we cannot account) just looking at the pitch, 5000 /8 * 3 = 1875mm/min at least


    Depends on the recipe though; single flute vs two flutes, depth of cut, endmill diameter. Did you account for flex in the machine frame (large format machine will have some flex, probably will be limiting your feedrate more on this than the speed the leadscrew can handle) etc.
     
  9. Excalibur67

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    All clear... but if i change system transmission from screw to belt is a right compromise or not?
     
  10. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Lets put it this way :)
    There's good reasons we only stock prepacked kits up to 1000x1500mm. Beyond that there's just about too many compromises, so "upgrades" tend to make me feel worried already.
    Belts over 2m will suffer stretch issues... So look at the Dual Belt system (hit the search at the top) to help with that, but yeah will be faster (with less accuracy, less torque) - so decide on your compromises.

    I'd say keep the 12mm screws and forget what you read about feedrates. Build it, run it, adapt to what it does in the real world. 1800mm/min is plenty fast.
     
  11. Excalibur67

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    Ok i will follow your advice and i will try to work with that! Thank you so much for your support (even moral, because it is not easy to support problems when you spent a lot of money!)
     
    Peter Van Der Walt likes this.

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