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TrueUP Glide

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Keith Davis, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    The question was - why would you design a Y axis physically out of square with the X & Z axes, not how would you follow such a misbegotten design.

    If your printer looks like this, maybe you need a wrench more than you need math
    [​IMG]

    If your print bed looks like this, maybe you need a flat metal heat bed, instead of math
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Balu

    Balu Well-Known
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    You know that, I know that, the Prusa team knows that, but probably experienced a lot of support questions because people had problems with it. So they added a solution / "workaround" for people who don't care about the build.
     
  3. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    That's what I love about using OpenBuilds extrusions and hardware for framing instead of using inner-connected threaded rods - creating anything but perfectly square would be a task in itself. :)
     
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  4. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    Hello. Could someone please quote to supply the 3d printed parts needed for this build? Postage to the UK as well please. Thanks
     
  5. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    Hi Robert

    I've never shipped international except Canada and from that experience I'm guessing that shipping cost even for only printed parts would be equal to or more than the price for the parts. Although I'll pursue that if you want, I strongly suggest finding a UK print shop or enthusiast to do the printing for you. The beauty of 3d printing is that STL's have free shipping and manufacturing can be done locally. :)

    I will be making 2 major update changes over the weekend to this build: (I'll also be changing the SKP, and STL files for this update)

    1) 4 parts that now are 250mm long are divided to fit an 8"x8" build bed (including splicing fixtures)
    2) recommending PLA for the Z axis bushings instead of Nylon.

    Those changes should enable virtually anyone with a 3d printer to print parts for you. Of course, I'll be happy to assist anyone in the UK willing to print the parts should they need it (including suggesting slicing parameters). In fact, if you find someone who'd provide printed parts for TrueUp in UK, I'd be more than pleased to promote them as such a supplier in the UK, EU zone. I do not see that zone as a market for me and would welcome anyone in that zone who wants to fill up their plate.

    I assume you'll be relying on RepRap 3D Printer Parts Supplier - V-Slot CNC - Ooznest for OpenBuilds parts, etc. Since they sell 3d printers and filament, ooznest might be able to recommend someone who'd love to do the printing for you.

    Let me know how you want to proceed.
     
  6. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    T
    Thank you again for the reply. Flash blizzard a? Geez lucky you ;) We've not had anything in the UK yet :( I have found a site called 3dhubs.com they have a UK location. Cheapest I have found for the 23 parts is £93. I was hoping to get around the £50 area including shipping but this may be overoptimistic. I will hang fire on sending the STL files to the supplier until the update which I really appreciate all the hard work your doing, its incredible. So all parts now need to be PLA apart from the Glide Bushings? If I could find a enthusiast to do the work what print settings would you recommend?

    With regards to the supplier for the parts I was just going to order from the links supplied on the BOM :( I will shop around if I find any US parts. Thanks
     
  7. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    I'm starting a fresh set tomorrow for a TrueUp (want to verify that these new parts are 'good' before publishing them). That 93 pounds does seem high.

    Tell you what, let me get this set finished so I can see what packaging and weight will be, then I'll look at creating an Ebay item for it. Ebay has an option for UK shipping where they handle the import/export nonsense and arrange for UK delivery (all I do is ship to the US facility). Don't know, but it's worth looking at, we may find it's a good deal even with Ebay's charge added.

    As for slicing parameters, I wrote a Perl utility which can unpack a gcode file and create a zip of the Slic3r settings used for it that can be imported into Slic3r. Think I'll just publish those also.....
     
  8. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    @Keith Davis

    Thanks very much. Yes please let me know the ebay listing when you list it. I look forward to the update :)
     
  9. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    BTW, the under Y pieces for PSU and control box are black. The other pieces are orange. OK?
     
  10. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    Oh right didnt realise the parts where colour specific. Ok no problem I will change that. Just had another quote for £79.85 including postage and packaging. This still seam high? Also he cannot do the Nylon Slide Glides. I will wait until the update before I order anything :)
     
  11. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    @Keith Davis

    You may know already but I just thought I'd mention.....

    Item 7 on the BOM states 216X216X3mm build plate but the link is the Heatbed. It is again stated on 9th from the bottom but price states 17.60...
     
    #41 Robert Kirkpatrick, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  12. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    Correct! I've fixed that, download again.
     
  13. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    That's a price delivered I probably can't beat.

    I'm reorganizing the SKP and STL files into 2 folders - Black and Color. You get to chose the color. I've quit making all black as the Black/Orange sells better
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    It does look good in orange/black but for my build I would like to go green/black. I will print off a orange/black kit and keep it in stock incase anyone from this side of the pond needs a kit like I did. The guy who quoted the above figure cannot do the glide bushes in Nylon. Am I ok to do them in PLA and then when my build is complete I will print them off in Nylon? Some light lubricate may be needed...

    Lastly I've got some parts that you have linked on your BOM that ebay sellers in the US refuse to ship to the UK. I've managed to locate what I think are the correct parts but am I able to list them for you to check? Thanks
     
  15. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    PS
    He has quoted the 3d printed parts on a 20% infill with a 200 micron layer height. Is this going to be strong enough? I think not....
     
  16. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    I used to use green, but I changed to orange when I saw Prusa's MK2 in orange. It's not my favorite, but I figured Joe Prusa has better market research than I have, so....

    PLA bushings are really slick. No lub needed. Keep in mind the X axis is weight balanced and the bearing surface is small. The bushing's 45 degree angle center against the extrusion slot is the surface - and only the outer perimeter line of the bushing is touching since each layer is staggered 45 degrees.. There was a design on reprap.org a year before Deezmaker's Bukobot use of UHMW Z bushings that used very small surface bushings in 80/20 extrusions. I built that as my first proto and it got more than 1000 hrs on those bushings with no wear before I junked it when OpenBuilds came out with V-Slot.

    The most critical print fit is the bushing must fit flush in it's housing at these two surfaces to prevent any play there. The printer guy will likely end up reprinting bushings with slight scaling changes until he finds the perfect tight fit, depending on his machine's tolerances.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    Yes. I print all TrueUp parts with 20% infill, 0.2 layers (0.4 first), and 4 perimeters with 4 solids top and bottom. No printed parts contribute to the frame strength or alignment on this design. The extruder parts I do use 30% infill just because the lever arm gets a lot of pressure for it's size.
     
  18. Robert Kirkpatrick

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    The printer is asking if this is in millimeters? thanks
     
  19. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    Yes, everything is in millimeters. I don't even remember how to do inches.....
     
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  20. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    I neglected to respond to this part. Yes. If there are few, list them here and I'll check them. If there's quite a few, how about doing this in a conversation instead (click the envelope next to your login name on the black header bar above and select Start A New Conversation)
     
  21. Christian Setla

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    Bom lists 2 x M5 nylon nuts, link goes to the correct 8mm size.
     
  22. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    Fixed. Thanks Chris.
     
  23. GeoMetJosh

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    The build plate listed on the BOM link (Aka the universal open builds build plate) doesn't seem to match the print bed assembly instructions (TrueUp Glide Print Bed Assembly). Am I missing something here? I can't seem to find any holes that make the 100x60mm grid for the wheels.

    Also thanks so much for releasing the design, this is my first printer build! Very excited to get it put together.
     
  24. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    Actually, what I do is take two aluminum heat beds and use one for the build plate. That converted heat bed, and the OB universal build plate, do NOT have the holes noted in the Step 28, TrueUp Glide Print Bed Assembly. You need to drill them.
     
  25. timwilde

    timwilde New
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    I have to say thank you for such a neat design. I'm starting the process of ordering parts this week to get one setup.

    I do have a question though. What was the reasoning for the bed size? I'm asking out of curiosity and partially to learn how to figure out if it can and how to scale it up a little. I'll be building one exactly per your specs in the build for learning purposes but was curious.

    Secondly, I'm curious how z axis can be down to 0.005mm resolution but XY is still 0.05mm. What work would be involved to get them to match the 0.005mm resolution? Or would this even be worth getting them to match?
     
  26. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    I use 8"x8" because it's most common. AND, a 250mm bottom and top frame piece work at that width (no scrap to buy and toss). A 12" x 12" would certainly be doable.

    The goal with the Z axis was to require full-steps-only since steps are physical locations in a stepper motor, and variation effects layer height. With a 1 pitch screw, 0.005 is easy to achieve with full steps. In all candor, while Z 0.005 is possible, it would never be practical, 0.01 would allow 0.24, 0.25 or 0.26 for example.

    With X & Y, you do not want to require full step movement. Microstepping, while inherently less accurate than full steps (because microsteps are result of current fluctuations rather than positions), also use less power, create less sound at high speed, run cooler, and produce much smoother movement (all important considerations for X & Y movement, but not for Z). To get to 0.005 with a belt you'd need a 400 step motor, running 1/32 microsteps with a 32 tooth pulley - and probably not be able to see an improvement without magnification.
     
  27. Christian Setla

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    Gah.... time to go back to Kindergarten and brush up on my math... or... stop doing math in my head! I got it in my head that it was cm and not mm pitch......

    Sorry....

    [Edit] I deleted my incorrect answer above.
     
  28. timwilde

    timwilde New
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    Awesome!! Thank you for the answer. I was just curious why xy always seems to be less resolution than Z, always seems that way on FDM printers. If it's not worthwhile, it's not worthwhile :)

    Would it just be a matter of building out the frame and extending the belts or does that mess up the math for movement? (Not sure why it would, but figured asking would be better than assuming :) )
     
  29. Keith Davis

    Keith Davis Veteran
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    The math for movement would not change. But you still need to recompile the firmware to set X_MAX_POS Y_MAX_POS Z_MAX_POS which define the size of cube the printer works in. The main considerations you have for expansion are finding a hot bed the size you want and being aware that you'll need to somehow fashion an aluminum build plate that size. Also, with greater mass to heat, the heat bed needs to be 24 volt, so the PSU must also be 24 volt (the MKS Gen board is 12/24V). All doable, somewhere between Logo simple and Erector Set skills.
     
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  30. SatMike

    SatMike New
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    If I am understanding you correctly, you use a second MK3 Heat bed in place of the openbuilds build plate. If that is the case, that would explain the two links to the MK3 plate in the BOM. If doing it that way, I am assuming you don't need the openbuilds build plate, correct?
     

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