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Upgrading the “old” C-Beam machine

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016.

Upgrading the C-Beam machine

Upgrading the C-Beam machine

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016.

So we have new plates, stronger motors, belt drive reduction, but what should we do with them? In this article you might find the answer you were looking for as we took an “old” C-Beam machine and started to upgrade the X/Z body and added more torque and precision to the Z-axis.

C-Beam gantry plate X/Z body high torque XL reduction 2:1 for NEMA23 machine Upgrade OpenBuilds
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  1. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Also, you can check out the resources: C-Beam™ Machine - Plate Maker and don't forget to take a look at the build videos too before you start putting all together ;).
     
    #31 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 30, 2016
  2. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Something kind of like this hey Kyo ;)
    @Z-Gantry v6.png
     
    #32 Moag, Jun 30, 2016
    Synths, silopolis, eddiejr and 4 others like this.
  3. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    That is a awesome render!
     
    #33 Kyo, Jun 30, 2016
  4. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    @Moag, that looks shiny, what software was used to get that render? :eek:

    I've just got into rendering with SketchUp and Vray 2.0 (demo):
    Promoveo_2016_0_6_510.jpg
     
    #34 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 30, 2016
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  5. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Fusion with a bit of playing around with the Appearance tab of the Step models and some time.;)
     
    #35 Moag, Jun 30, 2016
  6. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    Nice ! both of your renders look so good. They put my export .png from sketchup to shame lol
     
    #36 Kyo, Jun 30, 2016
  7. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    That's totally awesome @Ronald van Arkel, your models in Sketchup was my main inspiration mate.:D
     
    #37 Moag, Jun 30, 2016
  8. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    upload_2016-6-30_1-29-28.png

    :D:p

    SketchUp sucks, pain in the behind for clean meshes, but it could be done, still, not any day soon again ;). We need a detailed DeWalt 611 and Bosch Colt, and not just STL to SKP; too many triangles :S. If some one feels like spending 3 to 4 weeks for each model it would be great :D.
     
    #38 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 30, 2016
  9. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Yep it's a bit like that, come over to the dark side Ronald.:p:);)
     
    #39 Moag, Jun 30, 2016
  10. Bob K

    Bob K New
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    Yes, a 3 mil spacer makes it much better. A 4 mil spacer is definitely too much.

    thanks

    Bob
     
    #40 Bob K, Jun 30, 2016
  11. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Hey Bob:

    That looks like a #6 Robertson screwdriver you are using as a test rod...

    You must be Canadian, Eh?;)

    Yeah, you need those 3mm spacers under the nut blocks.
     
    #41 Metalguru, Jun 30, 2016
  12. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Hey Ronald van Arkel:

    I just got an email back from Trish at the Parts Store, apparently they have withdrawn the belt drive reductions parts because:

    "We have been working on testing these parts and aren't happy with the results so we removed them from the OpenBuilds Part Store while we revisit them."

    You know anything about this?
     
    #42 Metalguru, Jun 30, 2016
  13. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    So how come this thread just got all mixed up timewise? The posts are all in a different order than they were yesterday... Some new posts are on page 1, and older posts on page 2?
     
    #43 Metalguru, Jun 30, 2016
  14. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    @Metalguru,

    Yes I was told the same today. I'm sure they still will sell them to you if you ask. I believe it has something to do with the large pulley being pulled towards the motor, still, if you have a 16mm drill you can just slap a bearing in the "belt reduction plate"; I know I will ;).

    Posts are in the same order, nothing got changed (not joking).

    -Ronald
     
    #44 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 30, 2016
  15. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Maybe its just me.
    I was confused.
    Happens when you get old.
    Don't ever get old...
     
    #45 Metalguru, Jun 30, 2016
  16. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Age is how you feel :D.
     
    #46 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 30, 2016
  17. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Yeah, tell that to my knees...
     
    #47 Metalguru, Jun 30, 2016
  18. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Hey Ronald van Arkel:

    Do you have the SketchUp model for that mounting plate? I haven't been able to find it...
    It looks like, from the pictures, that the hole in the plate is already more than 16mm.

    So, I'm not clear on the problem, that pulley is just substituted for the flex coupler, no? Its only a few mm from the existing bearing, is flex on the lead screw the issue or what? Would it help to use one of those flat 3 piece thrust bearings between the pulley and the C-beam end plate? I have a few of those kicking around somewhere...
     
    #48 Metalguru, Jun 30, 2016
  19. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    The hole where the Acme sticks out is 11mm:

    upload_2016-7-1_0-1-24.png

    The belt replaces the flex-coupling. The Acme rod gets pulled towards the motor and the belt might get un-lined when doing rapids as there is no tension pulley (3x 625 bearings works nicely)/spring. I believe that it's easy to add an eccentric spacer to the pulley for adjusting belt tension, plus adding the bearing will solve some flexing in the Acme screw. I believe bearings are your business, if I recall well, so you can easily find a good solution to this. Still, OpenBuilds wants to provide well working parts out of the box and this most likely is why they are not found in the shop at this time. OpenBuilds Mexico does have a few of these parts in stock but I tell people to use this setup only for the Z-axis (no high advances needed ;) ). I also recommend to add a plane where a set-screw will sit down on the Acme screw.

    -Ronald
     
    #49 Ronald van Arkel, Jul 1, 2016
  20. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Thanks Ronald!

    Can you upload the actual model file, or point me to where I can download it, so I can do some simulations in Sketchup?

    No, I'm not in the bearing business, although I pretend to know something about them.;)

    I would think the slots for adjusting motor position would be enough for tensioning without adding the complexity of eccentrics and locking mechanisms, no?

    I do have some of those diamond shaped pillow block bearings, they may do the trick, although they are quite thick. I think the small 3-piece thrust bearings or perhaps just an additional 625 might do the trick... Since most of the force is radial instead of thrust, I am leaning towards the diamond shaped bearing. Only thing is it will raise the pulleys up by quite a bit and we may have problems with length of the motor shaft. That's why I need the model, and come to think of it, models of the pulleys as well if you have them.

    And, I am only planning this for the Z axis anyway at this time. I think the 2:1 speed reduction would be too much for the X and Z axis, it would slow the machine down significantly.
     
    #50 Metalguru, Jul 1, 2016
  21. gwandad

    gwandad Well-Known
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    Don't whinge about getting old! Make the most of it, it will stop soon enough!
     
    #51 gwandad, Jul 7, 2016
  22. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    I never whinge. Whatever that is...
     
    #52 Metalguru, Jul 7, 2016
  23. Jim S

    Jim S Well-Known
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    Any news on this front? I've got a project in the works that would benefit from the belt reduction system. I'm looking forward to buying some!
     
    #53 Jim S, Jul 18, 2016
  24. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Jim S:

    Only Mark Carew would have the answer to that question.

    I believe SMW3D has the pulleys and plates in stock. Nope, just checked, they don't show any stock. The only place that has stock that I can see is Fuzztech.ca, a Canadian OpenBuilds dealer. You can probably get the pulleys and belts from Stock Drive Products, and possibly make the plate yourself?

    See My Solution to Belt Reduction Issues for my mods to the existing plate to make it more reliable. I picked up the set from Fuzztech.

    Good Luck!
     
    #54 Metalguru, Jul 18, 2016
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  25. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    @Metalguru, I didn't see your topic earlier, but what you did with the 16x8x5 bearing is indeed what I was talking about. I saw you also took a file to the Acme screw to make a plane for the setcrew tip.

    @Jim S, I believe you can still get them from the OpenBuilds partstore if you tell them that you know that the plate isn't 100%. I personally like these plates and with some adjustments they are fine to use, hence, I never complained about it when I used it in my build, and yes, I'm picky ;). You have a nice looking avatar photo, something that holds 3 "arms", what is that?

    -Ronald
     
    #55 Ronald van Arkel, Jul 18, 2016
  26. Jim S

    Jim S Well-Known
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    I haven't taken proper photos or published it yet, but I designed a hotrodded Delta 3D printer that I'm just putting the finishing touches on. I'll make a post just for it so that I don't hijack this one too badly :)

    Please forgive the "prototype" style wiring and blue tape. It's much more finished now, I just don't have decent pictures.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #56 Jim S, Jul 18, 2016
    Mark Carew, Kyo and Ronald van Arkel like this.
  27. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Nice build Jim! Wow that thing is heavy duty...

    That's not v-slot, is it 80/20? But using v-slot wheels?
     
    #57 Metalguru, Jul 18, 2016
  28. Jim S

    Jim S Well-Known
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    You're correct, it's not OpenBuilds rail. It's 1"x2" extrusion from FazTek (supposedly they were started by former 80/20 employees who weren't happy with the QC, plus they're a local company to me).
    These are Trick Trucks from the Trick Laser company, which are designed to use V-Wheels on 1" extrusions for Rostock Max 3D printers.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'll start a thread just for this build. I'll edit this post with a link to it when I've got it written up.
     
    #58 Jim S, Jul 20, 2016
  29. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Alright, after 3 months (I believe) I've got the bed of the machine in. It's 3/8" machined on both sides to 8.5mm. Spacing of the holes is 30mm. Now I'll need to get the cables, 1/8" collet and bits in to start making our own plates in OpenBuilds Mexico. We already have an older industrial CNC machine but it's slow and doesn't understand new G-code, plus it's clunky and bits/end-mills are hard to get/expensive. Might be a project to retrofit something modern soon ;).

    Some pictures:

    IMG_0103.JPG IMG_0102.JPG IMG_0101.JPG IMG_0100.JPG

    Sure I could polish the plate but it will scratch again as it's just 1100-T5 Aluminium.
     
    #59 Ronald van Arkel, Oct 7, 2016
    Synths, Kyo and Mark Carew like this.
  30. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Hi Rick, I think it's clear now why I used the screws with the head down and the lock-nut up; gives more clearance underneath the machine and it's easier to fasten the nuts. The holes are big enough to put a socket in, yes, I thought about that ;).

    -Ronald
     
    #60 Ronald van Arkel, Oct 7, 2016
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