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Probe plus

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by Edong1174, Oct 11, 2022.

  1. Edong1174

    Edong1174 New
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    Hi
    My issue with the probe is, I getting error when I initiate the auto probing giving error 9-G code locked out during alarm or jog state [G4 P0.3]
    Saying This error may just be a symptoms of an earlier event:
    Alarm 4-Probe fail. The probe us not in the expected initial state before starting probe cycle where G38.2 and G38.3 is not triggered and G38.4 and G38.5 is triggered.
    I am new in cnc I am lost on this G code command.

    Thank you sir.

    Sincerely yours
    Ed Gaylican
     
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Means the Probe is triggered even before it can start the probe. Either your bit is already touching the plate - or your machine has a short circuit somewhere grounding out the collet of the router (where the magnet attaches) providing an alternate path to GND that is not through the touchplate as expected.

    Use the Troubleshooting Tab in CONTROL to check the probe status, then look for a short circuit between the collet and DC GND (often via a badly wired VFD spindle, a chaffed through wire touching the frame, or a limit switch installed without the rubber spacer)
     
  3. Edong1174

    Edong1174 New
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    I' ll checke it out.


    Thank you Sir

    Ed Gaylican
     
  4. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    Good morning,

    Did you find the problem?
    I have the same error I have just reviewed my wiring and no short circuit in sight ... I will check the aviation plug because there is only that I have not checked yet ...

    just to be sure ! the aviation plug has 4 pins, it's 3 phases and a mass, so the first 3 can be put in any way, how long have you put the 4th in mass?

    Thanks ;-)
     
  5. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    Good morning,

    I have just checked my cable I do not detect a short circuit between the phases and the ground and I have checked my solder and connection and nothing exceeds bearing when I disconnect the aviation plug no more probe problem ... so the problem comes from the wiring or the problem comes from the VFD itself?

    Thanks for your help
     
  6. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Use the Troubleshooting tab in CONTROL to monitor the Probe status.

    Perform some eliminative testing:
    - magnet on spindle - triggered or not
    - vfd unplugged - changes from triggered to off?
    if not try
    - other devices one-by-one unplugged until resolved
    That way you can zoom in on the actual source of the problem, by playing the elimination game.
     
  7. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    I did the probe works when I disconnect the aviation plug.
    I tested the cable that connects the pin to the VFD and my multimeter detects no short circuit on the cable.
    the problem is just when the VFD is turned on once the VFD is turned off, no more problem.... I did a double insulation of the connectors and it didn't change anything...
     
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    What is the "aviation plug" - what exactly do you have? not one of our machines? Is it our Probe or something 3rd party as well?


    That's not where we expect a ground loop to form


    Hard to say from the limited info posted so far, but use the Troubleshooting tab

    1) VFD on, Magnet on collet - what does the PROBE pin say in Troubleshooting tab?
    2) VFD off, Magnet on collet - what does the PROBE pin say in Troubleshooting tab?
    3) VFD on, Magnet not on collet, rather place it on the probe plate in your hand - not touching the machine: what does the PROBE pin say in Troubleshooting tab?
    3) VFD off, Magnet not on collet, rather place it on the probe plate in your hand - not touching the machine: what does the PROBE pin say in Troubleshooting tab?

    upload_2023-3-30_15-23-21.png
     
  9. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    probe on VFD pin turn on = triggered
    probe on pin VFD off = off
    probe in hand VFD turn on triggered
    probe in hand VFD off triggered
    without touching the machine...
     
  10. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Also see other questions (not answered yet)


    Pin? How are you turning on the VFD? Using a control signal pin from the BlackBox, or manually. Also, define ON: just power to the VFD on, or properly ON as in spinning the spindle
    How are you switching the VFD on/off power-wise - any switching mechanism (or operator unplugging mains plug) that also disconnects the Earth?
     
  11. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    just remove the plug from the VFD
     

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  12. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    what more can i do?
     
  13. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Ok so that part of it is OK. Mains plug has an earth, it goes into the VFD, and back out to the spindle body. That domain, is MAINS EARTH

    The other equation is DC GND (sounds similar to earth, but keep the seperation in mind - ones for mains power, the other is the low voltage side GND)
    Normally GND and EARTH does not (and should not for safety reasons) touch

    The VFD is wired correctly, but something else in your system is connecting DC GND to AC earth, thus providing an unwanted return path for the probe signal via Mains Earth to this DC GND / Mains Earth short and thus back to DC GND to complete the circuit the probe would normally do to the GND on the Probe Plate.

    The hunt is on on your end to find where this short happens. Again, elimination game, unplug DC stuff one at a time until the probe goes OFF with magnet on the collet
    It "could" be a bad computer too

    Refer to XYZ Probe Plus with VFDs and other ground-loop inducing components for some other scenarios - lengthy read, but worth reading the whole thread
     
  14. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    Good morning,

    So if I understood correctly the ground of the pin does not connect to the ground of the VFD but directly to the ground of the house? and in my case the mass of the pin is connected with the mass of the mains plug and the problem can come from there?
     
  15. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    from what I see this problem comes up often why don't you make a video on the subject see things have understood them better and save you time than having to repeat everything every time ...
     
  16. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    AC Mains has its own EARTH (Ground rod outside house. Neutral bond in main panel, etc). Outside the US we call that Earth, but yes you might know it as "ground"
    In contrast GND (DC ground. Usually negative pole of single rail PSU - is a separate domain entirely - don't mix mains systems and dc low voltages systems) is what the PROBE, Limits, etc uses (sig pin closing to GND via switch, probe, etc = triggered)

    GND and EARTH should NEVER be electrically connected.

    Somewhere in your set up, they seem to be.

    Its not inside the VFD. So time to look elsewhere
     
  17. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    I tested everything in the following way multimeter on the pin body and on the other side on each gnd 'sensor and nema but nothing the test was done without the mains plug I have to test everything but this time if with the socket plug into the mains I risk nothing? on the other hand when I test the 3 phases I have a signal is it normal?
     

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    #17 Glen.G, Mar 31, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2023
  18. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    problem solved!!! just by stripping my cable I slightly cut the sheath of a cable had to bend the cable to see the notch but a bit of insulating tape and problem solved

    Many thanks to Peter Van der Walt for his patience. :-D
     
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  19. Glen.G

    Glen.G New
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    problem solved !!! just by stripping my cable I slightly cut the sheath of a cable had to bend the cable to see the notch but a bit of insulating tape and problem solved

    Many thanks to Peter Van der Walt for his patience. :-D
     
  20. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Well done to you for finding that! That was not an easy hunt! Barely visible! Well done!
     
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