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Help with broken/ smoking HY02D223B VFD on Openbuilds platemaker

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Richmond Maker Labs, Oct 13, 2021.

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  1. Richmond Maker Labs

    Richmond Maker Labs New
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    Hi,

    I've inherited a OpenBuillds platemaker without full information and it's got a spindle I was hoping someone might recognise it, though appreciate it may too to generic. All this is way beyond warranty and wouldn't know who to contact anyway.
    The only markings on the spindle are 220V 2.2KW and just wondered if anyone recognised it, I believe it to an ER20 collet but can measure again over the next days.
    The VFD is/ was a HY02D223B

    Photos on imgur.com

    What happened
    1. Has been working fine for a good while/ not a new install
    2. A loud pop which blew the breakers upon activating the spindle
    3. Disconnected the spindle and just powered the VFD and there was a smell/ smoke.
    4. Tracked it down, we think, to the green resistor shown but don't know the cause.

    Questions please
    • Im presuming it's a replacement but love to know if anyone has any fixes obviously. I'm in the UK in case anyone repairs them. Have electronics people to help if need be.
    • What I don't necessarily understand yet is whether I need more information on the spindle to program the VFD, if I was able to track down a like for like replacement? We don't have those settings saved and will read through the manual for anything obvious.
    • Also whether I'm just looking for a 2.2KW VFD, or if there are other considerations when buying a new one please.


    Bonus questions:
    • It's obviously a water cooled spindle but has been running on air- would be good to confirm that's just an option, rather than a necessity. Doesn't seem to get hot to the touch for what it's doing (mainly wood at present)
    • Been wondering about increasing the Z height on this machine, not by a huge amount, but wondering whethere the forces on the frame will be too much with this spindle.

    Thanks in advance for any help
     
    #1 Richmond Maker Labs, Oct 13, 2021
  2. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Usually caused by a wiring short, failed spindle itself (windings) or not setting spindle parameters on the VFD - for example, the default VFD frequency is 50/60hz, but for a CNC spindle you should set that to 400hz - forgetting to do that, can easily blow the output stage IGBTs and burn the spindle windings. Damaged spindle windings in turn can cause a short circuit too

    No pictures attached :)


    Yes, amperage, pole configuration, frequencies, a whole host of spindle specific parameters. The spindle vendor should be able to advise


    That empty water jacket will insulate the heat nicely inside, hidden from your touch - meanwhile the windings could be cooking off their insulation inside. Heat is generate through Eddy currents, friction, bearings, etc - not just the load you excert on the spindle. Please do hookup the cooling loop
     
    #2 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 13, 2021
  3. Richmond Maker Labs

    Richmond Maker Labs New
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    Thanks for coming back so quickly Peter, lots to think about there. Glad I asked about the cooling, made some wrong assumptions there.

    Just checking you saw the imgur link? Likely signs of the smoke from the resistor on that black relay.

    I'm pretty sure the frequency was right.

    Just to play back what you said to confirm. It's possible that a problem in the spindle caused the board problem - the resistor was smoking even after the spindle was disconnected, upon powering it up again..

    Some of that spindle information I think we can work out from testing of the spindle but certainly don't know what the make/ model the spindle is sadly, as per the photos, it's blank. Going to put that one to the guys that understand electronics more than me. Should be fun.

    Doesn't surprise me, knowing the guy who made it (sadly not around to ask about it) went for a larger spindle than standard.
    Was really partly checking that spindle/ vfd wasn't part of the kit Openbuilds offered at some point at some point?
     
    #3 Richmond Maker Labs, Oct 13, 2021
  4. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Sorry, now I do! :)

    Yes the damage may already have been done - the resistor may be a symptom of other damage though - overheating because its passing more current because something else further downstream failed
    Either way, replace the VFD. Do measure the spindle windings to see if any has a different resistance from the other two to decide if its viable

    Negative. Dewalt 611s and RoutER11s only - we prefer simplicity
     
    #4 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 13, 2021
  5. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    If the space has the budget I'd strongly recommend replacing it with a VFD by a reputable manufacturer with support and quality documentation. I have a Hitachi WJ200.
     
    #5 Rob Taylor, Oct 13, 2021
  6. Richmond Maker Labs

    Richmond Maker Labs New
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    Thanks, much appreciated. Will definitely be coming back for suggestions and definitely want to avoid 'buy cheap, buy twice'

    Haven't got the proverbial pot to urinate in if honest.
    Though, if we can't run that spindle (if good) without water, then we'll need to change that anyway and won't look to put such a beast on it.

    First I need to test the spindle windings.

    Thanks both, hugely helpful. I'll report back
     
    #6 Richmond Maker Labs, Oct 13, 2021
  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    If its toast, get a router - simpler, cheaper, more Makerspace Friendly :)
     
    #7 Peter Van Der Walt, Oct 13, 2021
  8. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    I think spindles are infinitely better than routers- they have multiple angular contact bearings- but if you don't have the budget to support them, the next best option would be a "super router" like an AMB spindle, which can be had for the price of a quality VFD: AMB - the 1050 DI is particularly well regarded. The DI means Digital Input for speed control, so you can still use your controller's variable spindle output. Failing that, I'd just go with an ~800W trim router from a reputable brand, like the DeWalt 611- but router bearings aren't great, so don't expect particularly beautiful sidewall finishes in unforgiving materials like aluminum and acrylic. And of course, no external speed control without some hackery.

    Definitely don't run it without liquid (50:50 distilled water/antifreeze, or DI water + Fernox corrosion inhibitor, for example) for more than a few seconds. The core heats up, not the shell.
     
    #8 Rob Taylor, Oct 13, 2021

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