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myOX : a 4' x 2' OX with potential

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Serge E., Jun 19, 2014.

  1. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    Looks like myOX is back in action ! There is no more bind/unbind or freeze ... at least using the original V1 CNC xPro.

    From what I can gather from the past couple of months, it most likely was just an issue with the wiring - bad connection which got worse with the wrong type of wire, at least as far as V1 controller is concerned. V2 controller still causes Z to randomly freeze.

    Time to run a job with the old myOX and see what happens ... First, let me put the fans back in. I will skip the heatsinks (just for now).

    Ran two jobs in a row, cutting air not to waste any more material or tool wear.

    Both ran like a charm: no apparent skipping of steps; no binding/unbinding or sticking of the Z (or any other axis); none froze; ... it was like back before my Z issue started.

    Great, right ? Not quite ... Here's the kicker :

    So, guess what, having seen how fast the rapids could be with the V2 (actually the GRBL 0.9j), I changed the $5 (0.8c GRBL; default seek mm/min) from 3500 to 5000. Problem is on 0.8c GRBL this is one parameter for all axis even with some being belt driven (X and Y) and others lead screw driven (Z). There lied my issue all this time !

    That's about when it hit me. I hope others (newbies) will learn from this error of mine, thus I openly admit it ...

    When I was working on the thick oak slab (remember, I said that's just before the time my Z problem started ?), I figured I could push myOX a tad. It was way too boring to see the tool go one way into the material, do a rapid back (keep 'climb' cut, or was it 'conventional' ?), shift over and go down just a hair to repeat until entire surface was covered. Well, I think I had played with that $5 setting (default seek rate in mm/min). That's how fast it would return to the start before shifting to next pass. Every second count when you are surfacing a large piece !

    When, moments ago, I kicked the default seek speed ($5) to 5000 mm/min, yes, the bind/unbind resurfaced on Z !

    They say there is no shame in admiting our errors, but I sure feel foolish and ... old: hardheaded, memory loss, etc.

    I still think there was a slight issue w my wiring of Z and X since with the previous 3 changes of wires the binding issue was present but not with the latest wiring.

    Setting the default seek back to 3500, which it was set to at the beginning of my issue, makes the Z axis work without any bind/unbind. So I now have it set to 3000 (the old 'push to the limit, back off at least 10% for comfort'). I'll review this with myOX 2.0 (an almost complete rebuild : expand Y axis, make gantry more rigid, expand Z travel as initially planned, ...)

    This $5 setting makes some sense. Long travels on the lead screw, at 200 steps/mm, as opposed to only 26.667 for X and Y using GT3 single belt, regardless of starting position, could be affected.

    The stepper is being sent a stream of steps (200 per mm). To move 3/4" (when I was first getting the bind/unbind issue) is a train of 3805 pulses. The same travel with X generates a train of only 508 pulses. Now, to move at 3500 mm/min for the default seek (rapids) the train is 11666 pulses per second (on the Z axis); moving at 5000 mm/min makes it 16,666 pulses per second ... the wiring can come into play (inteference, etc.)

    When I was experimenting with the V2 (GRBL 0.9j) I could push the X and Y to rapids of 25,000 mm/min. Which is stream of 11,111 pulses / seconds. That's still less than the 16,666 to move Z at 5000 mm/min ! Reason being it is only at 26.667 steps/mm. Now I suspect my Z rapids with the V2 (GRBL 0.9j) was also quite high, higher then 3500 and even higher then 5000... I don't remember any more (I'll look at the discussion thread later.) At 200 steps / mm, I suspect the controller and or the stepper would just go into a coma ("freeze"). I must of been pushing beyond bind/unbind ... into a full stall.

    When I swapped the steppers during my tests (connecting X to Z driver and vice versa) withOUT changing the steps / mm setting (!) made everything work fine, of course. The lead screw was happy as can be now running at 1/8 the rate, while X and Y loved moving at 8x the speed. Heck, I had them running at 50,000 mm/min at one point with the V2 controller which allows setting this '$5' per axis : $110-112 (default feed rate for each of X, Y and Z).

    Mystery solved ... I think. Unfortunately for me : Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa ! ;(

    Life goes on and myOX is back cutting (or shortly will be).

    Now to bring life to the C-Beam and plan for upgrading both machines. ;)
     
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  2. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    Well, time does fly !

    Been under the weather for a while, but getting back into action ... especially with myOX and the C-Beam.

    I will need to change my GT3 belts, especially those for Y axis... I have abused them through my learning curve. It's better to destroy a bit of belt than some hard gear. But myOX still outputs nice results, just not stuff to impress the NASA with the level of precision. It might be time to stretch my Y-axis from 750mm to 1000mm and go for the belt-over-belt drive. Crossing fingers it can wait a few more months (budget wise that is).

    I seemed to have issues with UGCS dropping the USB connection to my computer. It was doing it often ! Switched to Chilipeppr very recently and things seem much better (USB wise and all of the other features from Chilipeppr). But I think my USB cable is starting to fail since I still get the odd drop ... even if I try an other computer. It can work fine for hours on end and then, suddenly, it drops every few minutes/seconds! Hopefully it's not my aging CNC xPro V1 acting up ... Problem shows up randomly, mostly on or after the long jobs.

    Chilipeppr makes manual tool changes easier, for me. I don't have to shut everything down to reset home position. UGCS didn't want to zero any axis for me. It kept going back to the original home (ie. Z was not changed for new tool).

    I'm also starting to 'play' with 3D jobs. Man those things take forever and a day to run ! They do help with my manual tool changing skills. I need to find an affordable quick change system... Probably means I will need to change from a router to a spindle. So it won't be any time soon.

    Getting into some v-carving as well. Makes for some sharp corners and many of the jobs are much faster running as the v-bit goes up and down as needed for the width of the cut. An endmill can make bottom of larger areas flat. Just need different software to generate the G-code for v-carving. F-engrave is free ...

    Vectric's free trials shows the software side can be a whole lot easier ... at a substential cost. ;( Top of line Aspire is like 2k$US ! The free trial is also limited, in time (30 days) and features (some high end stuff not fully operational). So that's way off budget, especially when looking at cost of keeping it up to date ...

    That's about it for the passed few months regarding myOX.
     
  3. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Have you looked into Artcam?
    Autodesk ArtCAM; woodworking software for 3D reliefs, decorative woodwork and CNC machining
     
  4. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    It's been a while ... again.

    Just as I got started into taking a few orders from friends and friends of friends, myOX decided to act up again. Ran a bunch of small jobs into pine, various wood from pallets, etc. with no issues. Everybody was happy. myOX started to generate a bit of cash ... Then, myOX would just randomly stop !

    The v1 CNC xPro controller seems to drop the USB connection at random. Both USB ports on the computer side, two sets of cables, etc. Even tried a different computer and all of its USB port. No change with random drops of the USB connection, as reported by the ChiliPeppr interface. UGS was also seeing the issue, just not reporting it in a comprehensible manner ... Not sure want could of gone wrong with the v1, I turned an eye to the C-Beam at the other end of the garage ...

    So I transplanted the v2 CNC xPro controller out of the C-Beam, adjusted the $x as needed given the belt drive, etc. USB connection is nice and stable, even at the higher baud rate... I can even get the X and Y axis beyond 25k mm for rapids, while keeping Z (screw) at a more reasonable pace. You would think all is well ... However, a new issue arose as soon as I tried to run a test job !

    Z axis stepper keeps FREEZING, mostly on the up movement of any size !

    I have gone over all the settings, following all of the troubleshooting steps in the CNC xPro and GRBL wiki, forums, etc. Z stepper still randomly freezes. I can exercise it going up and down 20 mm at a time for minutes ... or just seconds and it would stall. The only way to get the Z stepper back into motion is to power it down (pull the plug on the power supply). xPro still connected with USB power, not missing a beat.

    First question : does turning the power supply off, yet still connected with USB to computer, resets the drivers on the CNC xPro ? Or, I suspect, it just drops the voltage/current to the steppers which unstalls the stepper.

    I have tried to also adjust the trim pot for the Z driver. I'm not certain I see any difference in the frequency of the stepper freezing.

    All four steppers are basically identical NEMA 23. The Z is more recent, replaced the original NEMA 17, with a single shaft since the double shaft was out of stock at the time I ordered it. It should take the same current, stepping, etc.

    I had this issue a while back when trying to use the v2 on myOX. I had to return to the v1. But it now drops the USB connection. If I can't get the v2 going, I will need to get a new CNC xPro (or some other controller) ... hoping that fixes my issues.

    Stupid question : it seems the issue started after wanting to test run a large job into MDF instead of tackling the roundish 1.5" thick slab (live edge), could the FINE DUST affect the working of a stepper motor ??? Z is always close to the cutting and, being mounted in vertical position, might be getting more than its fair share of that wonderful fine MDF dust. I've tried "everything" else with no avail. I'm grasping at straws, what else could be wrong ?

    Looks like I'll have to cancel a few jobs until after Christmas ... unless someone can put me on track with this v2 CNC xPro / stepper stalling issue real quick ...
     
  5. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Is your Z axis binding? Might just need some lube and a quick adjustment.
     
  6. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Hi Serge. Good to hear from you. :)
    Would it be too much trouble to swap that Stepper out for one of the other ones? And maybe call it "X" and drive it from that outlet. Process of elimination thing. :rolleyes:
    I'm pretty sure I read about something similar on our forum about the Z going up but not come down. I don't know what the outcome was though. :banghead:
    Gray
     
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  7. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    It sounds intermittent though. Guess it could be a driver on the v2 board. So yeah, maybe swap steppers too.
    First I thought about counter weighing Z, but he has run the mechanical system without problems with the V1.
    Wait a min., he did say he had the same problems with the v2 board on his OX so maybe it is the driver on the V2 and com issues with the V1.
    Ugh. Just ditch the xpros Serge. You're making money now! Just splurge or set up a gofundme. lol.
    I'll give you few bucks towards new electronics. :)
     
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  8. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    I was thinking about going through the exercise of at least wiring one of the other steppers to the Z driver and see if the problem follows the driver or stays with the stepper ... I might just do that shortly, just to see. Only 8 wires to move on the controller side (careful not to ram into the limits when testing).

    I was going to put the v2 back in the C-Beam, which I have not used in a while, being too small for the items people want from me. It should confirm if the Z driver is at fault. If not, the only thing left would be the stepper or the cabling to that stepper. But swapping the stepper above should allow for the same conclusion. It be testing two ways ... and making sure I'm not going nuts over this.

    Better turn the heater in the garage, it's getting quite cold lately ...


    I seem to recall the v2 working ok on the C-Beam. I'll be testing that today, just to make sure I'm not going nuts ... C-Beam was idle since most jobs done so far are too large for it... If it works ok, I might have to limit jobs to its capacity and have it pay for repairs and upgrades to myOX.

    "Making money" and "covering (cumulated) cost" are sometimes too far apart. ;( myOX still has a ways to go to turn a profit ... not working properly makes it a tough goal to reach. Not dedicating enough time between day job, family and hobby isn't helping either.

    If it wasn't for all of the learning done through out my journey with building an OX and then a C-Beam, I would regret not investing in some expensive pre-built machine. I'm glad to have built myOX from scratch. I have learned so much. The machine can grow with needs and experience. The people here at OpenBuilds and a very few FaceBook private groups are great as well ... To have some one like me go from less than zero to sometimes being able to help others on their own journey, making items which are worth giving or selling along the way, is simply fantastic.

    Once I fix this Z issue, myOX just needs a stronger gantry and Z to remove the slack when cuting fast and deep. Being ~ 1500mm, with basic OX design, is not for the heavy router I use. Until those upgrades, it can cut precise, enough for my jobs, if I go slow and shallow.

    I'll check around before getting a new controller. Which is your favorite? The only issue with the xPro is not being able to easily do swap of drivers. It can drive external drivers, but that's a substentially different setup ... especially with the layout of myOX.

    I can check the cracks in the sofa and bottom of drawers to raise the needed funds ... Just getting tired of spending more than I can produce. Thanks for offering to pitch in. It's much appreciated. It shows how helpful OpenBuilds' community can and wants to be.

    Been eyeing a few higher end controllers for a while. But that's more spending ...

    Time to turn this hobby of mine into at least a break-even venture.

    I'll put the jacket on and head to the garage for some more testing ...
     
  9. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    It must be the Z driver on the v2 CNC xPro which is acting up.

    I just reconnected the X stepper to the Z driver, and vice versa. The problem of 'freezing / stalling" stepper stayed with the driver. That is now the X stepper is shutting down until the power supply is cycled off and back on. The Z stepper, now connected with X driver, is happy as a pig in mud running much faster then it ever hoped. The only change is the driver being used.

    Problem is now I am in a situation of having an OX with two usuable CNC xPro. The old v1 appears to have a finicky USB port - dropping the connection at will. The v2 having a problematic Z driver, which can't be replaced being surface mounted (soldered). Eyesignt being weak and hands shaking, there's no way I'll even consider attempting the replacing of the driver or anything like it (could be a capacitor as some indicated in other threads here and elsewhere). It be so much easier to swap a driver module ...

    I could send the two controllers to the xPro folks. But I'm in Canada, they are in the USA and shipping cost will almost make it a worthless exercise, unless I ship and receive in Detroit, MI (just across the river from me). But that's a headache... or I end up at restaurant and/or shopping with the wife (= gets expensive real quick !) I might as well get a new controller. ;(

    At worse, I could use the v2 on a smaller machine with just one Y stepper, jumper the A driver to mirror the Z axis and give it a 2nd chance that way ... I'll see how it behaves as is on the C-Beam first. Just might be ok on the smaller and slower machine ?

    As for the v1, I don't think there is much hope of giving it a 2nd life ... Maybe trying to use a bluetooth or some wireless module ?? One that would bypass the USB port. But I read about some issues there as well... needing USB power and modifying the board?

    Time to shop around for a different controller ... maybe two if I want to get the C-Beam doing a bit of business now that the second refurb'ed computer is cleaned up and working good.

    Any suggestions ? I'll read and see what falls within my non existent budget... Might make it a late Christmas gift suggestion. ;)

    I do have an old Arduino, the daughterboard and plug-in drivers from my first run at the OX. The xPro turned out so much easier for getting the myOX going. Where did I put those parts ? But that's going backward, isn't it looking for different problems ?

    I need for myOX to at least pay for itself before the wife decides the garage is much better at keeping her car warm during the winter months and dry during the rest of the year than me fiddling with a limping machine or two.
     
  10. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Try fixing usb on V1 or maybe the cable and the V1 port aren't getting along. Try another cable.

    You could pick up a cheap driver and PS package online for around $150 or less and use the arduino to run them. This also leaves room for experimenting with other control systems later on. You might even be able to get away with 3 drivers because they can supply more current. Or if you use 4 drivers and one goes bad you could still run on three while waiting for the replacement.
     
  11. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    I'll take an other look at the v1 to see if I can get the USB port stable enough for most jobs. I do have one which might run ~10 hours, so not much hope for it to run smoothly ... it would be the biggest job yet for me. Most are only an hour or two of running.

    Most sources seem to be out of stock of xPro v3 and SmoothieBoard V1.1 (looking at maybe getting the 5xC, not that much more than the 4xC). I also have to keep in mind the shipping, crossing border (duties, time), etc.

    So been thinking I should be able to get ONE DQ542MA external driver to bypass the bad Z driver of my v2. This keeps cost down, it is also in stock most everywhere. I might even get one before Christmas, to my front door ! Looks like 50$CAD shipped/delivered.

    Likely the NEMA23 I use are a bit of drain on the built-in drivers of xPro (pots are near 80% position). This will likely be the same for a SmoothieBoard. So might as well start to transition towards proper drivers as I wait for an opportunity to change/upgrade controller at a time I could better afford the controller and possibly 3x more DQs to take care of electronics once and for all. I could upgrade power supply to 30+V as well. That should help in some aspects with the NEMA23.

    I missed Black Friday specials from everyone. ;(

    These external drivers are relatively huge. So I will need to reconfigure my wiring to the steppers. Currently, the xPro rides along on gantry. Short term, I can rig a single DQ542MA on the gantry. But 4x will get ugly and stupid on the gantry. By getting one now, I can start thinking about rewiring myOX. I already have longer V-slot to upgrade my Y and new GT3 belt to refresh all belts and do "double belt" setup on both X and Y axis. The only big upgrade left would be to make the gantry solid : new Y and Z plates, C-beam length, ... myOX should then be as strong as an ox !

    That's the big advantage with machines like the OX and C-Beam: the person can grow into them and they can grow as needs dicdate. There would of been no way for me to afford the learning and growth curve with a pre-built machine to do projects I have done so far...
     
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  12. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    I was going to mention running an exterior driver off the xpro. I didn't know if folks have them working with external drivers though.
    Use a 48v supply if you go all dq542ma.
     
  13. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    Trying to read up on external drivers with the xPro. I would be hybrid as well, X and Y off the xPro itself and the Z of the DQ. Not sure if that could cause any issues ... Usually people are all one way or the other.

    For a bit more than the price of a single DQ I could get 4x 6560 with an Arduino Nano and a screw terminal board ... All fitting easely within the current location of my xPro - no rewiring needed. Could be a quick fix good enough to hold me until myOX starts paying its bills.

    I'll "sleep" over the options ... or rather do further reading here and in a few other forums.
     
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  14. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    I'll go for a TB6560, hoping to get one as quickly as possible to get myOX back into working order asap.

    As an other member, in an other thread, explained, he has built some 30 OXs with TB6560, Arduino Nano and screw terminal board with no issues. It should be good enough for myOX. So I will likely order a full kit to replace the old v1. Slow boat from China is ok. I'll then move the hybrid v2 back to the C-Beam for any small projects ... and make new plates for upgrading the gantry on myOX.

    Maybe OpenBuilds could do a 'controller kit' option as well. Even with a mounting plate, stand-offs, screws and a good fan it would cost substantially less than any of the all-in-one options currently being offered with no cooling or mounting hardware.

    The all-in-ones are great. The xPro had myOX up and running very quickly. But any all-in-one have one of two issues : repairs and limited or never used paid for features. As nice as a SmoothieBoard appears, I'll never use nearly half of it (ex: heated bed control, etc.) ... thus versions with partially populated board (cutting cost down, while allowing the tinkerer a chance to upgrade the board).

    Some things are meant to stay as easely replaced modules. Drivers seem to be one of those as I'm learning in my journey ...
     
  15. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    This should move the conversation to my build, not introducing 'noise' (chatter) to the orignal thread on whether DQ542MA discrete / external drivers can be used with an xPro controller and worth the cost for a typical OX build.

    I didn't realize you were a Canuck and had a website. A small world it is, eh ? I'll have to check with you next time I need any item for myOX or similar projects. Who knows, if you have stuff in stock and a close enough delivered cost, I might take you up on the offer. Although our Canada Post might make shippping from Alberta to Ontario more expensive than the parts. ;(

    In going through your website's blog, I found the basic information for connecting the Arduino and discrete drivers, such as the TB6560. I'll see, in a couple days, if I run into any issues putting the electronics together and getting myOX back in motion.

    I'm not one in changing too many things at once, who knows which change broke or repaired the previous situation. However, yes, it will be a golden opportunity for me to upgrade to the latest GRBL release and clean a few aspects of myOX. I still don't have the limits and 'control panel' buttons in place ! Heck, my big red Emergency button is my hand on the power cord, ready to pull !! ;( For jobs done to date, I don't mind babysitting myOX, almost still mesmerized by how the blank piece of material is turned into a sign or whatnot ... However, the pending 10 hours long job just doesn't sound as wonderful to sit and watch, not sure why. ;)

    In the meantime, in case I don't make back here before Christmas, only days away (already !), Merry Christmas to you, to all who bother following my build and to one and all.
     
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  16. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    I'll be a monkey's uncle ...

    In a last disparate try, I connected the v1 xPro to my computer using a 3rd USB cable dug up from my pile of cables. It fit no looser or tighter than the original or the 2nd I'd ordered a week or more ago. The one difference, so far, is that I have nothing else to the xPro - just the computer !

    Guess what ?

    I'm sending it a large chunk of the 10 hours job I had to cancel AND it has NOT ! lost the USB connection after nearly 55 minutes of 'ghost' cutting. An other 3 hours to go in this chunk of Gcode (34k+ lines). It would of dropped the connection by now ...

    Oh, I did do one other little thing, embarrasingly : I sort of cleaned the INSIDE of USB connector on the xPro! I didn't really think it could get dirty since the cable at this end was always connected and never moved. Yet, there seemed to be quite a bit of MDF (extremely fine) dust! In fact, when I turned the card over, lots of that fine dust was in and around every pin and whatnot ... looking around the garage, the stuff is all over !! I'm not so certain the regular mask I tend to wear filters the stuff out of the air I breath now that I see this ...

    Remember, earlier in this latest thread of mine, I said I was testing the long job using MDF not to waste the unique piece of live edge slab ? And my USB disconnect issue started AFTER those trial runs for no apparent reason ?? I had not cut MDF in a very long time ... too much fine dust somehow found its way inside the house ...

    So I might just reconnect the v1 to myOX. The TB6560 and Arduino NANO won't get here until late tomorrow anyways. So worth giving it an other shot... At worse, I have spare electronics for the next time there's a break down. Or, I could think about a 3rd machine. :thumbsup: I could test the setup and the latest GRBL (1.1f ?) before upgrading v1 and v2 xPros with this firmware.

    The v2, I'll have to reconnect and configure for the C-Beam. At worse, it should work fine by assigning the A driver as Z. My C-Beam only drives 3 smaller steppers.

    Sort of embarassing IF it was just caused by (MDF) dust in/on the controller board :blackeye:

    I've used the compressor to blow any dust out of the hard to reach areas of myOX. I guess that just blowed it deeper in the USB plug on the controller ?!?

    I definitely need something better than the old shop-vac to suck that dust and keep it away from everything else ... It probably blows right out the other end of the shop-vac ! I'll also look at how the air blown onto the controller can come from outside myOX's "enclosure" (just a tent of sorts for now).

    How are others handling the fine MDF dust ???
     
  17. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    Then again, it could be some form of NEW interference over my USB cable since in this 'ghost' cutting run the Power supply is off, no power to the steppers, and the router is also off. Cables are not running parallel. They are at least a few inches apart. Although, inside plexiglass shell containing the controller and stepper, they get a bit closer ...

    I say NEW interference since myOX has not changed for quite a while. The USB and 24 volts line for the steppers are where they have been for the longest of time ...

    Being only affecting the USB communication, and not having to physically disconnect to get the communications back up, I'm leaning towards the "MDF dust" cummulation therory ...

    I'll find out soon enough when I power everything back up and give it an other go with cutting in thin air (not MDF !)
     
  18. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    Looks like it WAS just the darn MDF dust playing naughty inside the USB port !

    Now running the 4 hours long job, cutting air, with no drops in the USB connection for well over 25 minutes ! Steppers are obviously powered. The router isn't.

    Powered the router and, even after 20 minutes or so more, still no loss of USB connection !

    All it took was a quick cleaning of the contacts inside the USB port of the xPro v1 to get back in working order. :banghead: It's a spot I never looked at, that end of the USB is plugged in and forgotten until things go wrong ... When I tried the other two USB cables I didn't bother to look inside the plug, just a quick disconnect and connect. Over the years, I might of done that a dozen times? Certainly not very often and certainly without looking inside the plug for dust or whatnot ...

    The v2 most likely HAS a bad on-board Z driver. I'll check with the C-Beam tomorrow, once the TB6560 discrete / external drivers are in. I'll try one of them then ...

    By the way, a little bird told me the step/dir signals surface pads hidden beneath the ATX plug. So it will take some work to remove the ATX plug to get to those pads ... So I might not try the TB6560 with the v2 after all, especially if I can make it work with the A acting as Z.

    Looks like myOX and the C-Beam will both be running again before Christmas.
     
  19. Muaz Gulen

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    BTW; if you want a really perfect cut, don't use a miter saw but a table saw with the right blade and a calibrated miter sled. Success guaranteed![/QUOTE]

    I have an incra miter sled on table saw. Using 3 different angle finders to confirm. Everything is perfect 90 degree on both axis. I am clamping the c-beam on the sled. But after cutting c-beams same thing again and again. it is never 90 degree. Is it because of the blade? If so, what type of blade I have to use?

    Thanks
     
  20. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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  21. Muaz Gulen

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    GrayUK, Thanks a lot.
     
  22. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Volunteer
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    Hi Mauaz,
    Those Incra systems are sweet! but so $$$ with some plywood you can make a sled and get the job done for $ :) only need 90deg! I made the holes so I can lock the v-channel down with some Track nuts and bolts.
    I use a cheep aluminum blade from amazon, it was ~$20 10" 100 tooth, has worked perfectly for me, i'm not doing production work, go slow and easy.
    Might not work on Aluminium ;)
     

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  23. JustinTime

    JustinTime Veteran
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    Using angle finder is not the best way to make sure your sled cuts true. The best way is to use the 5 cuts system to calibrate your sled. The sled that Gary shows is a sled that is normally adjusted using that method.
     
    #443 JustinTime, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  24. Northern Woods Crafts

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    Hi,
    I need someone to help me with 3 axis router patterns with details on measurements to guide me cut machine parts. (Not good in drawing)
     
  25. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    Well, it had to happen, didn't it ?

    Can one destroy a router and a stepper if a large tool digs way deep ???

    -----

    Kind of taking things easy with the CNC hobby for a while, grand-son and all being more important. Yet, a little while back, I had someone ask if I could do some large 3D'ish letters. The good old "H", "O", "M" and "E". Sure I said, shouldn't be a problem ..... Murphy must of been standing within ear shot. Things went way wrong. Way, WAY wrong !!

    Short version of the event, some how, don't ask me how (likely operator error as usual), the large 60d v-bit went way deep. I mean WAY deep! That's a lot of material surface, too much for the feed/speed I had figured for about 1/8" passes. The router jamed. The steppers strained, mostly Y closest to the zero (front left corner) as the job had just started... All in the fraction of a second it took to pull the plug and stop everything... No limit switch could of avoided the situation, not even on depth of cut as it was above the spoil board's surface.

    Kind of killed the motivation. Left everything as is. Called the person. Told I might not be able to get the job done. The person was fine ... After all, I was not even going to charge for the job. Maybe it was Karma telling me I should start charging for jobs ...

    I had a few such accidents in the past ... But with small 1/8" end mills. myOX would just plow right through the material. No issues, not even breaking the end mill (!). At least none that were long lasting ... beyond my ego being hurt.

    This time, given the size of the v-bit involved, I really, really, fubar'ed myOX.

    Tried running a few other small jobs since. The router is making a painful noise ! Slowed feed and speed, even reduced depth of cut. But cuts are very poor. Worse yet, myOX seems to loose steps in the Y direction. Shaking like there was no tomorrow.

    Figuring the belts might of got stretch, especially over time since myOX is getting a bit old, I adjusted the tension. I tried a small job. No difference. Router is still noisy, as in not very pleasant noisy. Belts obviously have nothing to do with the router. X and Z steps - still just fine. Y, however, is about as precise as 90 year old with Parkinson tremors - good to spread sugar on strawberries.

    I figure the bearings in the router are shot. Not certain if they can be replaced easily (for me at least). will see if I can get router, the Canadian Tire has some promos lately ... I can get a new router, on the cheap, in a day or so ... like this afternoon really.

    Worse, I think the left Y stepper is shot. Can that be ? It still rotates back and forth. But, as I try to compare with the right Y stepper some 1500 mm away, like following a ping pong ball of a fast pace pro game, it doesn't look right. It seems to be stuttering... Is that possible ? As it goes deeper in the material, it looks like the material forces it on track more than the stepper! Getting a new stepper will mean having to wait at least a few days (Amazon.ca had the exact same a while back), or way too many days (getting the exact same off of SteppersOnline, slow boat from China at worse = weeks of waiting, uncertain it would even help the situation !)

    But I look at the clock, and it's been nearly four years since I started on this hobby with myOX. And, yes, the router's warranty is, you guessed it, only 3 years (and limited). I will try ... but I doubt it will come into play. Especially when the router in question is no longer sold.

    I just feel bad I didn't take the hobby to the next step earlier - making money with it. At least enough to pay for wear ... and accidents like this one. At least it isn't an expensive commercial machine !
     
  26. GrayUK

    GrayUK Openbuilds Team Elder
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    Hi Serge.
    Not good news about the machine. :(
    But it's great to hear from you. Good to know you're still around mate. :D:thumbsup:
    Perhaps when the dust has settled, you might just look at how things have come on, especially in the Parts Dept,
    and maybe treat yourself to an upgraded machine with salvaged bits of your old machine as the doner.
    You say you've been, otherwise occupied for a good while, so what's a little longer going do to your CNC ingenuity and a pencil and paper.
    I used to enjoy those postings of yours, or should I say short stories of yours.
    And, yes, it is easy to keep doing things for free! You gotta be tough and charge them, if only for the materials and the electric, if not your time.
    Been there, done that! :banghead:
    Anyway, don't be a stranger, and keep us informed of your CNC plans :)
    Cheers
    Gray
     
  27. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Sorry to hear the news. Are these worthwhile? At $99 the price seems good but obviously not if they're junk.

    As for the stepper you may have scorched the wiring in the coils. Would still spin easily but not function reliably. If Amazon doesn't have the one you need, Stepperonline does maintain some US stock which might get you up and running quicker (but obviously at a cost).
     
  28. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    But it's great to hear from you. Good to know you're still around mate. :D:thumbsup:

    Thanks for the welcoming back. I missed the place ...

    I've managed to get a full credit for the router :thumbsup: and got a new one, on special, for less ! :) The new router is a bit heavier and designed for "continuous" use - whatever that means for a router. Missing digital control (I'm still a propeller head geek at heart). Hoping the extra weight won't become the next issue ... I'll eventually will have to think about a spindle, eh ?

    Now I have to get a new stepper, which matches the other Y ... or get a new matching pair, and quick... So Amazon might be the saviour this time around for a matching stepper nearly overnight on my front steps (Canada).

    I already ordered, a while back actually, some OB rails to extend my Y. I also got some extra belt to do the double belt on X and Y with all fresh GT3. It looks like a good time to do at least that little upgrade as well.

    As you say, could also be a good time to do some major rebuild. I've been thinking about using C-beam for a "new" style of gantry. Could be the time to design the necessary plates. I could also see if I can get my C-beam to do them (it should, not sure I can).

    In mean time, I could use the smaller C-beam machine to also make small stuff and generate a bit of cash ...

    It's like the Phoenix, I feel like I'm starting over ... to be even better. And, just as important, to start charging for the work. At least material and expenses. Seems the bit of work I do is well worth it. That one job I recovered with the C-beam got me 100$! Small wood car for a 2 year old and a 14" x 3.5" text-on-text name plate (widest I can do on the C-beam). I need to get V-carve Desktop which would make such signs so much easier to design.

    Getting back in the game, let me make a bit of money with the C-beam and see if i can fix the old myOX before I spent too much... Time to get serious with this hobby.

    I need to catch up with things around here. Lots of new designs, parts, ... A fantastic group !

    Well, this short story is getting long enough o_O

    Stay tune for : myOX 2.0, in the coming months ? :rolleyes:
     
    GrayUK likes this.
  29. Serge E.

    Serge E. Journeyman
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    It's a 375$ router, with a 5 year warranty and "continuous" use design. It's on a promo at 99$ for the week. Only two on the shelves. There is a 30 day money back guarantee for it as well. So it should do great to get me back in the game. At least until myOX starts making money. I just need to get the steppers back on track well within the 30 days ...

    Yap, that's what I figured for the stepper even with the little I know about motors ... Hopefully it is only the one. The other, as I said, seems to be smooth running. In both cases, Amazon and StepperOnline (US), I'll pay a premium to get the replacement quick. The China route will be such a long wait ... or expensive to expedite.

    So I'm down for at least a few more days ... waiting for the new stepper.

    Just thought of something: even if I get an identical stepper, having one new and the other with some wear, will I be ok ? Or is it like car tires, as a common example, which should really be changed in pairs ?
     
  30. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    I guess if there was ever a good time for a system to tank this was it.

    The wiring in all motors deteriorates with age/usage so it wouldn't be a bad idea to order and maintain as a pair. I would suggest though before ordering that you swap the drivers around to verify the problem isn't actually at the other end. It's not likely but it never hurts to fully isolate the problem.
     
    joe williams, GrayUK and Serge E. like this.

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